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RE: Which operating system do you prefer?
July 23, 2015 at 7:37 pm
(July 23, 2015 at 2:06 pm)Tiberius Wrote: (July 23, 2015 at 12:55 pm)JuliaL Wrote: So I voted for XP. It is the last OS from Microsoft where I have full CDs available for re-installs. It is where I got off the treadmill and I don't stay current.
That's just incorrect. When my company bought a copy of Windows 7 a few years back we got a CD with the OS on it. Are you talking about buying a computer from scratch and receiving the OS install CD, because that's not the fault of Microsoft, that's generally the decision of the computer manufacturer (e.g. Dell).
Quote:I have XP on half a dozen machines on my home network and have never paid more than $30 for a desktop with OS or $40 for a laptop.
If you are still running XP then you are really asking for trouble. Microsoft aren't releasing updates for XP anymore, and that's been the case for over a year now. My bolds.
I do not have install media for 7 or subsequent. I didn't mean to say no media could be had.
What trouble did you have in mind?
Most of the problems I've had with Windows have come from the disk bloating backups resulting from update. One machine I recently purchased (from a local school system) had an 80Gbyte drive 35Gbytes of which was taken up with crap accumulated via Windows update. I have every confidence that that was why they ditched it, it ran out of room for applications. How big is your %windir%\Installer directory?
The computer that I cannot afford to have compromised runs Linux, is fully current and spends ~99% of the time powered off and physically disconnected from the network. If that can be hacked, I'd like to know how.
If you are suggesting that Microsoft spends any time worrying about providing me with reliable software or protecting my data, all I can do is laugh. I'm not worried about XP not being updated. Some day I may be forced to move on or completely drop Windoze. Computers are not that important to me.
So how, exactly, does God know that She's NOT a brain in a vat? 
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RE: Which operating system do you prefer?
July 23, 2015 at 7:46 pm
(July 23, 2015 at 12:10 pm)Tiberius Wrote: (July 23, 2015 at 12:06 pm)pocaracas Wrote: Depending on what you want to do... it does work... well enough.
I'm in total 100% agreement, however including those caveats don't even come close to mean "flawlessly" and "beautiful".
By the way, I'm not saying OS X is flawless either (though IMO it's one of the more beautiful operating systems out there). If you *really* want a flawless OS, you're going to have to go with some tiny server version of Linux. Strip away all the graphics crap and your little Linux server can run for decades with no problems.
No joke. We have servers at work that have years of continuous uptime, and that number would be pushing a decade if it weren't for kernel updates.
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RE: Which operating system do you prefer?
July 23, 2015 at 10:44 pm
(July 23, 2015 at 5:40 pm)pocaracas Wrote: On windows, most updates don't require a reboot... but some do... and it's pretty much abusive towards that requirement.
But that's windows for work or home computers...
There are windows for servers that work differently... Also windows embedded can work for years without a reboot...
Windows servers don't really work that differently when it comes to updates. If the updates affect the kernel or stuff that's not in user space, more often than not the server needs to be restarted. The problem Microsoft has is that it loves to put stuff in the kernel, rather than in user space. The main reason they do it is for performance reasons, but if you want a good example, look at the clusterfuck that was MS15-034 early this year. Crash Windows by sending a single GET request to IIS? Yup. All because they shoved some of the web caching code into the kernel.
Quote:No, that is also incorrect... you got a DVD with windows 7, not a CD! 
True. 
(July 23, 2015 at 7:37 pm)JuliaL Wrote: What trouble did you have in mind?
Security trouble. XP is now vulnerable to zero-day attacks which will never be patched. Also, eventually (as happened with Windows 2000), the antivirus software companies will just stop making updates for their products. Unless you are a business with legacy systems that you've been forced by management to keep on XP, there is no sensible reason not to upgrade.
Quote:Most of the problems I've had with Windows have come from the disk bloating backups resulting from update. One machine I recently purchased (from a local school system) had an 80Gbyte drive 35Gbytes of which was taken up with crap accumulated via Windows update. I have every confidence that that was why they ditched it, it ran out of room for applications. How big is your %windir%\Installer directory?
Once the updates are installed, you can delete the update files with no issues. Windows Disk Cleanup will do it all for you. Updates aren't a bad thing; they can be annoying, but they serve a purpose, which is to fix flaws and make the system more secure.
Quote:The computer that I cannot afford to have compromised runs Linux, is fully current and spends ~99% of the time powered off and physically disconnected from the network. If that can be hacked, I'd like to know how.
Every computer can be hacked in some way. If you can exploit USB, you can do plenty of things. Linux is more secure that most operating systems, but don't forget that Shellshock happened not so long ago, and the fiasco with OpenSSL (Heartbleed) was mostly a Linux issue.
Quote:If you are suggesting that Microsoft spends any time worrying about providing me with reliable software or protecting my data, all I can do is laugh. I'm not worried about XP not being updated.
I am suggesting exactly that. If they didn't spend any time worrying about that sort of stuff, why do you think they release so many updates each month? You should worry about XP not being updated. You're using a system which is just a big target with the word "infect me" written on it, and the target is getting bigger each day.
(July 23, 2015 at 7:46 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: No joke. We have servers at work that have years of continuous uptime, and that number would be pushing a decade if it weren't for kernel updates.
I think with the old AF server we reached a year and half before I decided I should probably install some kernel updates.
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RE: Which operating system do you prefer?
July 24, 2015 at 12:34 am
I'll have to check the boot history on my legacy dev box. I'm pretty sure its only been rebooted a few times, when we moved our data center, and when we installed a new fiber channel HBA - I think I've been using it since 2002-2003.
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RE: Which operating system do you prefer?
July 24, 2015 at 9:17 am
(July 23, 2015 at 5:37 pm)AFTT47 Wrote: (July 23, 2015 at 5:22 pm)dyresand Wrote: I put windows 8.1 i'm torn between that and my own custom build of Linux with native windows support.
Native Windows support? How?
Crossover linux 8 it is built on the linux whine platform.
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RE: Which operating system do you prefer?
July 24, 2015 at 9:31 am
(July 24, 2015 at 9:17 am)dyresand Wrote: (July 23, 2015 at 5:37 pm)AFTT47 Wrote: Native Windows support? How?
Crossover linux 8 it is built on the linux whine platform.
When you said native Windows support, it sounded like you were saying Windows runs natively - which is not happening under WINE. I've found WINE to be a mediocre solution at best.
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RE: Which operating system do you prefer?
July 24, 2015 at 9:36 am
(July 24, 2015 at 9:31 am)AFTT47 Wrote: (July 24, 2015 at 9:17 am)dyresand Wrote: Crossover linux 8 it is built on the linux whine platform.
When you said native Windows support, it sounded like you were saying Windows runs natively - which is not happening under WINE. I've found WINE to be a mediocre solution at best.
Crossover linux 8 is based off the whine platform it runs programs really well. I gotten the 30 day free trial and tested it out it runs really well.
https://www.codeweavers.com/products/crossover-linux
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RE: Which operating system do you prefer?
July 24, 2015 at 1:01 pm
That's really as close to "native" as you will get with Linux running Windows executables. At some point you're going to have to use emulators / abstraction simply because Windows executables are not written to run on Linux.
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RE: Which operating system do you prefer?
July 25, 2015 at 3:20 am
Tibs, why do you think the OSource community haven't got their shit together after all these decades and given us a free os which can do everything M$ can.
I think it was Ballmer who said it is because there is no "focus". IE: too many people doin' their own thing and hope the Frankenstein glues together!
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