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Old Age and Muscular State
July 24, 2015 at 12:38 am
Hello, I am a new member here, so beware! Anyway, I'd like to discuss this article:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24360282
(Dear mods, I promise pubmed is legitimate, haha)
Anyway the implication of this article is that simple injectons of NAD+, or perhaps even niacin in some cases, would allowed aged musculature to preform in a matter similar to young adult, which is absolutely astounding to me, since, if niacin is efficacious, then the treatment would be fairly cheap, and allow a quality of life in the elderly previously unseen. Anyway, to the points of discussion: first, has anyone heard of any follow-up on this article, clinical trials, etc., second, the implications of this treatment if it translates to humans. The first point I don't actually expect many answers on, unless someone gets bored, and decides to be a google detective/still has access to journal search engines. The second point actually the point I expect to discuss. Would this treatment potentially affect the retirement age, seeing that the infirmity of old age is no longer? Will it give way to newer disorders? Will it actually promote death in the elderly since this has no impact on the mind, from the promotion of more dangerous activity? I'm just providing food for thought and trying to incite conversation, by no means do I feel this is some inherent slippery slope. If anyone needs any background info on the theory of aging musculature, let me know and I'll edit my post with a summary. Thanks ahead of time!
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RE: Old Age and Muscular State
July 24, 2015 at 12:51 am
I would imagine you'd have to treat the bones as well. Yeah? Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the osteoclasts start to out compete the osteoblasts in old age, or is that just in the case of osteoporosis? If you're able to exert more force on you're skeletal structure, it had better be able to keep up. Maybe that goes without saying.
I can't remember where this verse is from, I think it got removed from canon:
"I don't hang around with mostly men because I'm gay. It's because men are better than women. Better trained, better equipped...better. Just better! I'm not gay."
For context, this is the previous verse:
"Hi Jesus" -robvalue
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RE: Old Age and Muscular State
July 24, 2015 at 12:55 am
(July 24, 2015 at 12:38 am)Arrogant Christian Wrote: (Dear mods, I promise pubmed is legitimate, haha)
Code for "I didn't read the rules, but know it's unacceptable; however, I'm going to lay my turd in your place anyway"
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RE: Old Age and Muscular State
July 24, 2015 at 12:58 am
It does not seem there where any follow up research available for public viewing but medical study can take long periods of time and have lots of ethics to consider.
Infirmity is also linked to the bone degeneration process that happens, can be slowed with exercise and weight bearing activities.
NAD also being used in the Krebs cycle and Electron transport chain it could very well lead to problems.
retirement age unlikely due to retirement not just being due to the break down of muscle but the degeneration of tissue and mental cognitive function.
that last one is difficult to answer as it depends on the person. Do they have medical conditions . But if there was an increase in muscular strength it would reduce the risk of injury in elderly because of the loss of strength can be one factor that does impact on injury rate.
sorry I can't provide links at this stage.
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RE: Old Age and Muscular State
July 24, 2015 at 1:01 am
Tag-team bullshit. At least professional wresting is mildly entertaining.
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RE: Old Age and Muscular State
July 24, 2015 at 1:04 am
(This post was last modified: July 24, 2015 at 1:11 am by Arrogant Christian.)
(July 24, 2015 at 12:55 am)Cato Wrote: (July 24, 2015 at 12:38 am)Arrogant Christian Wrote: (Dear mods, I promise pubmed is legitimate, haha)
Code for "I didn't read the rules, but know it's unacceptable; however, I'm going to lay my turd in your place anyway"
Believe it or not I did read all of the rules before joining at all, it was meant in jest, since, yes, I did know it was fine to post this link. However, the rules did encourage new users to not post links (for fear of advertising accounts) and that they would be subject to verification. As for pubmed, if the government has started an advertising campaign for a free scientific publication service who's theater is internet forums, then it is indeed a confusing country in which I live. As for your response, I find it somewhat strange that you are so very aggressive in what should have been a neutral joke. Well either that or you didn't know what you were talking about and decided to attack a new user for fun 
(July 24, 2015 at 12:51 am)Exian Wrote: I would imagine you'd have to treat the bones as well. Yeah? Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the osteoclasts start to out compete the osteoblasts in old age, or is that just in the case of osteoporosis? If you're able to exert more force on you're skeletal structure, it had better be able to keep up. Maybe that goes without saying.
Well, in a healthy body, osteoblasts and osteoclasts "compete" based on environmental actions, such as exercise, nutritional deficiency, etc. However, one of the hallmarks of old age is the loss of stem cells, though less so in more differentiated stem cells like osteoblasts. I would expect that light, weight-bearing exercise along with proper diet should help sufficiently strengthen the bones to a reasonable strength. As for osteoporosis, in my experience, it is normally poor diet (or conditions mimicking that), lack of exercise, and the loss of osteoblasts together that contribute to the disease state, and is treatable by treating the former two.
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RE: Old Age and Muscular State
July 24, 2015 at 1:12 am
Your form of advertisement is no different than taping a message to a brick and hurling it through a window. You are loathsome, shameless, and deserving of every form of derision.
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RE: Old Age and Muscular State
July 24, 2015 at 1:20 am
Quote:Would this treatment potentially affect the retirement age,
Unless it can do something about the give-a-shit attitude that creeps in when you get older it is probably a good idea to leave it alone.
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RE: Old Age and Muscular State
July 24, 2015 at 1:20 am
(July 24, 2015 at 12:58 am)RandomPastaFan Wrote: It does not seem there where any follow up research available for public viewing but medical study can take long periods of time and have lots of ethics to consider.
Infirmity is also linked to the bone degeneration process that happens, can be slowed with exercise and weight bearing activities.
NAD also being used in the Krebs cycle and Electron transport chain it could very well lead to problems.
retirement age unlikely due to retirement not just being due to the break down of muscle but the degeneration of tissue and mental cognitive function.
that last one is difficult to answer as it depends on the person. Do they have medical conditions . But if there was an increase in muscular strength it would reduce the risk of injury in elderly because of the loss of strength can be one factor that does impact on injury rate.
sorry I can't provide links at this stage.
Trust me I understand about links, heck, I've been speaking without links myself mostly since most of this is just from my memory. I don't expect extra NAD+ should be a problem, since it is basically a spectator in metabolism, ferrying along electrons. Excess of the NAD+ form could encourage glycolysis, gluconeogenesis, etc., but that should actually help I'd bet, providing greater cellular endurance, assuming a proper energy supply. Retirement age was mostly a moot point, but I almost wonder since retirement age seems to correlate loosely with average life-span, and of course it should depending on your time-frame. I do agree that injury depends on person to person, but I wonder if a youth-like body (strength and endurance) combined with an aged mind would potentially lead to a large increase of injury from risky behavior in patients. Ugh, I hate medicine and their "potentially" crap, I'm a biochemist, and I prefer "actually."
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RE: Old Age and Muscular State
July 24, 2015 at 1:38 am
(July 24, 2015 at 1:20 am)Arrogant Christian Wrote: Retirement age was mostly a moot point, but I almost wonder since retirement age seems to correlate loosely with average life-span, and of course it should depending on your time-frame.
Incoherence seems to be your specialty.
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