Old Age and Muscular State

[Faith No More]

Insteresting.

Perhaps there is a caveat we are missing to the new guy's claim to be a biochemist? Still in in under-grad?

[ignoramus]

I'm on your side AC! As long as you don't mind me being a homeopathy lover!

[robvalue]

I have no idea what's going on. This is all way over my head.

Give me some sums.

[brewer]

I have no idea what's going on. This is all way over my head.

Give me some sums.

Bottom line I think is: Can increasing intracellular levels of NAD+/NADH (coenzyme) return aging muscle cells to higher functioning state (as in youth)? The sideline debate is, if possible how will this effect retirement. AC started the thread, he may have more insight to the motive.

[ignoramus]

Rob, in a language we can understand, I think the hem's come undone and a button is missing.???

[Arrogant Christian]

Sorry for the late reply, been busy with work, and other events. Honestly, I shouldn't feel the need to defend my education against someone that couldn't even recognize PubMed or NIH, since it means it's been at least a decade since you actually did anything with the life sciences, but I digress.

I perhaps should have clarified that I intended intramuscular injection. Additionally, I agree with a previous poster's opinion on niacin, I remembered that niacin is the precursor for NAD, and I just included it, without much consideration, for discussion. Niacin would probably not work, even in mega doses, since even with a diet fortified highly in niacin, their bodies are obviously not producing enough NAD, even with excess of precursor. 

Now to "injection." The method I would have suggested is through the packaging the NAD+ in artificial vesicles, simply using a specific class of detergents to create bilayer micelles around the NAD+. Its easy to do, just make a buffered soln. of NAD+, add the detergent, shake gently, and the the micelles will form, since they are more thermodynamically favorable. After injection, they merge with the cells, releasing their contents into the cells, since merging is more thermodynamically favorable. This is a fairly well-used procedure mostly used by those researching novel anti-tumor agents. One of my areas of emphasis is drug design and delivery, nice try.
Incidentally, it appears that extracellular NAD+ is taken up by the cells naturally.
http://www.genazzanilab.it/pdf/Billingto...olChem.pdf
http://www.jbc.org/content/286/24/21767.short
http://press.endocrine.org/doi/abs/10.1210/er.2009-0026
So, it appears you're too lazy to actually do any research, trust your 23 year old knowledge of a tangentially related discipline, and assume that I'm another dumb Christian, rather than even look to see if my argument has any merit. And you say "double down on the stupid" for suggesting this, when the very article I posted injected a similar molecule, NMN, directly into mice, and saw some positive results. I mostly used NAD+ since it should also work, and it's something that someone could actually google easily if they cared. So Cato, you doubled-down on the stupid by committing to an argument that was wrong, and by not even researching your arguments to start.

Honestly, with others saying that Cato is "one of the good guys," and immediately accepting his prejudices, regardless of previous information is really disconcerting. I came here for intelligent and hopefully unbiased, conversation. This post was a test of sorts. However, between this post and many of the others I've seen on this thread, this forum is a den of hatred and dogmatic thinking, one of the worst I've ever seen on the internet. It in many ways compares to threads I've seen between radical muslims; its almost satire. Perhaps I'm making a hasty generalization, perhaps a marginalized part of society needs to dissipate anger, either way, I'll observe a while longer, and if I see no further merit, I'll leave this place to you.