The Batlord Cometh

[Minimalist]

Welcome Batlord.  We have enough theists around here to keep us well-supplied with batshit.

[Pyrrho]

Welcome!

However, if being wrong makes you sacrifice a significant part of your all too short life to a bullshit idea, being right has a clear advantage.

I've never known atheists to be any happier than anyone else, and if there is no intrinsic happiness benefit to being right, then I don't see it necessarily as an advantage on the individual level.

...

Two things.  First, I was much happier after I deconverted than I was when I was a believer.  That is not why I deconverted, and it is not what I expected.  However, from speaking with others, who are not recently deconverted, they seem to generally be happier than they were as believers, too.

For one example, I do not worry about making a mistake and ending up burning in hell forever.  Think about the implications of common religious beliefs, and you will find much to worry about in them.


Second, being right about things is often beneficial for choosing appropriate means to one's ends (goals).  If someone is wrong about things, they often pick means that fail to bring about their desired ends, and are therefore frustrated.  If someone has an accurate view of things, then one is better able to select means appropriate to one's ends, and consequently is more frequently satisfied.

[Longhorn]

Pancakes > waffles.

It's the intro forum, so I won't tell you what I think about that -_-

[Pyrrho]

Pancakes > waffles.

It's the intro forum, so I won't tell you what I think about that -_-

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[Minimalist]

I miss Losty's muffins.

[Salacious B. Crumb]

Welcome.  And, that Nickelback part was funny. Nickelback, Creed, or whoever, would do wonders for the CIA while torturing anyone. Thanks for the laugh

[Alex K]

Welcome!

However, if being wrong makes you sacrifice a significant part of your all too short life to a bullshit idea, being right has a clear advantage.

I've never known atheists to be any happier than anyone else, and if there is no intrinsic happiness benefit to being right, then I don't see it necessarily as an advantage on the individual level.

Then you should get out more.

But even if I granted you that one, is happiness really the final arbiter? To borrow a famous quote, a drunkard is happy, but does that make it desirable to be continuously intoxicated?

I think that your view, if you are really serious about it, inevitably leads to absolute nihilism, because if one does not value truth, I do think one cannot value anything. As an example, imagine you are convinced that you will meet your loved ones again after death. You may spend less time with them now, might even treat them worse because you know that you have eternity to make up for it. Would you not consider this tragic? Not caring would mean not caring about your relationship with your loved ones.

[rexbeccarox]

Welcome

[The Batlord]

Then you should get out more.

But even if I granted you that one, is happiness really the final arbiter? To borrow a famous quote, a drunkard is happy, but does that make it desirable to be continuously intoxicated?

You're confusing temporary satisfaction with long-term happiness. Getting drunk might be satisfying, but it won't result in any long-term happiness. A personal philosophy which satisfies whatever psychological prerequisites you have that would contribute to a fulfilling life -- which aren't always rational -- however, may.

And why shouldn't happiness be the ultimate goal in life? Why live if you're not going to pursue happiness?

I think that your view, if you are really serious about it, inevitably leads to absolute nihilism, because if one does not value truth, I do think one cannot value anything. As an example, imagine you are convinced that you will meet your loved ones again after death. You may spend less time with them now, might even treat them worse because you know that you have eternity to make up for it. Would you not consider this tragic? Not caring would mean not caring about your relationship with your loved ones.

What experience with theists and their relationships with their loved ones leads you to believe that their religion makes them value their human relationships any less? If they did, then they probably wouldn't care about meeting them in the hereafter. Saying that is like theists claiming that you can't have morality without religion: both are intellectually lazy assertions which only reflect the bias of the person claiming it.

If you believe that, then shouldn't you avoid relationships with theists, since they're not going to value you?

[The Valkyrie]