Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: March 28, 2024, 6:11 pm

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Shit. What The Hell. Jesus Never Existed
#21
RE: Shit. What The Hell. Jesus Never Existed
No, because that's like saying "this 'holocaust' nonsense is bs anyway ..."
For Religion & Health see:[/b][/size] Williams & Sternthal. (2007). Spirituality, religion and health: Evidence and research directions. Med. J. Aust., 186(10), S47-S50. -LINK

The WIN/Gallup End of Year Survey 2013 found the US was perceived to be the greatest threat to world peace by a huge margin, with 24% of respondents fearful of the US followed by: 8% for Pakistan, and 6% for China. This was followed by 5% each for: Afghanistan, Iran, Israel, North Korea. -LINK


"That's disgusting. There were clean athletes out there that have had their whole careers ruined by people like Lance Armstrong who just bended thoughts to fit their circumstances. He didn't look up cheating because he wanted to stop, he wanted to justify what he was doing and to keep that continuing on." - Nicole Cooke
Reply
#22
RE: Shit. What The Hell. Jesus Never Existed
Meh, I think that's a bit of an exaggeration
"Every luxury has a deep price. Every indulgence, a cosmic cost. Each fiber of pleasure you experience causes equivalent pain somewhere else. This is the first law of emodynamics [sic]. Joy can be neither created nor destroyed. The balance of happiness is constant.

Fact: Every time you eat a bite of cake, someone gets horsewhipped.

Facter: Every time two people kiss, an orphanage collapses.

Factest: Every time a baby is born, an innocent animal is severely mocked for its physical appearance. Don't be a pleasure hog. Your every smile is a dagger. Happiness is murder.

Vote "yes" on Proposition 1321. Think of some kids. Some kids."
Reply
#23
RE: Shit. What The Hell. Jesus Never Existed
I don't. "Dachau didn't have an operational gas chamber therefore the systematic extermination of Jews didn't happen" is an argument that's been used by Holocaust Deniers for decades. Most serious WWII historians disagree with that argument.
For Religion & Health see:[/b][/size] Williams & Sternthal. (2007). Spirituality, religion and health: Evidence and research directions. Med. J. Aust., 186(10), S47-S50. -LINK

The WIN/Gallup End of Year Survey 2013 found the US was perceived to be the greatest threat to world peace by a huge margin, with 24% of respondents fearful of the US followed by: 8% for Pakistan, and 6% for China. This was followed by 5% each for: Afghanistan, Iran, Israel, North Korea. -LINK


"That's disgusting. There were clean athletes out there that have had their whole careers ruined by people like Lance Armstrong who just bended thoughts to fit their circumstances. He didn't look up cheating because he wanted to stop, he wanted to justify what he was doing and to keep that continuing on." - Nicole Cooke
Reply
#24
RE: Shit. What The Hell. Jesus Never Existed
(August 2, 2015 at 6:36 am)Nestor Wrote: [quote='Cato' pid='1010800' dateline='1438392026']
Why is it hard for you to understand that the earliest sects of Christianity were inspired by a man named Jesus who appeared to some as a sage and to others a lunatic, immortalized by a number of his more educated followers who compiled different histories inspired by his teachings and the embellished anecdotes about his life and death, their primary motive being to reveal their theological dogmas, which centered around this person, to the popular masses in the form of sacred texts?

This is literally the same thing that has happened over and over and over again even into our own day.

You're barking up the wrong tree as we are essentially saying the same thing. I have never claimed that a Jesus did not exist nor that this person wasn't the basis for the later myth. What I have stated is the this person's actual existence is irrelevant and understanding that the figure as portrayed in the Bible most assuredly did not exist and is mythological.
Reply
#25
RE: Shit. What The Hell. Jesus Never Existed
(August 2, 2015 at 11:06 am)Cato Wrote: I have never claimed that a Jesus did not exist nor that this person wasn't the basis for the later myth. What I have stated is the this person's actual existence is irrelevant and understanding that the figure as portrayed in the Bible most assuredly did not exist and is mythological.
This is pretty much where I am.  There was no man walking on water and raising the dead named Jesus.  But there probably was a man behind the myth.  The problem is the myth is so much larger than the man that the man's actual doings are essentially irrelevant to Christianity.  What is most relevant to the development of Christianity is what Paul said about Jesus, and what Paul said was primarily doctrinal, not facts about Jesus.
If there is a god, I want to believe that there is a god.  If there is not a god, I want to believe that there is no god.
Reply
#26
RE: Shit. What The Hell. Jesus Never Existed
I think the statements, "Jesus never existed" and "Jesus existed" are equally ridiculous. There's currently no way to know for sure, and therefore, as others have stated, it's irrelevant.
Nolite te bastardes carborundorum.
Reply
#27
RE: Shit. What The Hell. Jesus Never Existed
(August 2, 2015 at 8:19 am)Aractus Wrote: No, because that's like saying "this 'holocaust' nonsense is bs anyway ..."

I don't see how that analogy is accurate.

Nobody is saying that never was any man named Jesus that inspired christianity. Just that the Jesus it was based on wasn't like the one described in the bible.

And the question of Jesus' historicity is irrelevant to the argument about the existence of a god.

I've asked multiple times why is this important, and the answer has always been that it isn't. This argument often seems to get disproportionately (to its importance) heated and I don't understand why.

Waffles anyone? ._.
Reply
#28
RE: Shit. What The Hell. Jesus Never Existed
(August 2, 2015 at 11:06 am)Cato Wrote: You're barking up the wrong tree as we are essentially saying the same thing. I have never claimed that a Jesus did not exist nor that this person wasn't the basis for the later myth. What I have stated is the this person's actual existence is irrelevant and understanding that the figure as portrayed in the Bible most assuredly did not exist and is mythological.
That's not what mythicists claim though.
He who loves God cannot endeavour that God should love him in return - Baruch Spinoza
Reply
#29
RE: Shit. What The Hell. Jesus Never Existed
(August 2, 2015 at 6:48 am)Nestor Wrote:
(August 1, 2015 at 4:28 am)Lemonvariable72 Wrote: Except the bible doesn't call him Jesus and leave it there, it names him as Jesus of Nazareth. Naming someones town like that in the ancient world was like giving a surname. The issue is we know from records was no town by the name of Nazareth, and the current site was uninhabited then. So no jesus of Nazareth and therefore no historical Jesus.
Huh? So, your arguments are something like, "We should expect a town noted for its insignificance to have been reported by X, and X does not report it," coupled with, "Archaeology has only discovered artifacts related to the historical Nazareth which date to a period some decades after Jesus was said to have lived there. Therefore, Jesus did not live there."

Hmm. Can no one else really detect anything wrong with that?

That historical period is about 100 years later. Also the romans conducted several surveys to number the towns and people in their new land after they had a Roman govern take over. So if there is no archeological evidence of a town, and no record of a town, why should I think there was a town?
To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
Reply
#30
RE: Shit. What The Hell. Jesus Never Existed
To me the most sensible mythicist-type position is that there are way too many potential "historical Jesuses" to have any hope of identifying a single person as being a sound basis for the story. I think this is perfectly reasonable given what little information can actually be verified, the wealth of similar preacher/nutters around at the time, the almost completely fictional nature of the story, the name not even being correct...

If I had to pick a position, it would be this one. It's not that there is "no historical figure", it's that there are too many to say it is actually one person with any degree of confidence. To point to any of them in particular would be pretty much arbitrary as they probably would all fit certain parts of the story in different ways, and all may have played a small part in the story.

The chances of the story not being influenced by more than one real person at some point seems ludicrously low to me, even before the myths get piled on top of it. The Jesus character does not read like a single person either but rather a weird amalgamation.

When the people writing his story had never even met "him" and were relying on hearsay, even if you could ask them exactly who they were writing about they wouldn't be able to say with any confidence. There may well have been a single guy who was more responsible for the story than any others who got rolled up in it, and if you want to call that guy "the historical Jesus" then that's cool Big Grin
Feel free to send me a private message.
Please visit my website here! It's got lots of information about atheism/theism and support for new atheists.

Index of useful threads and discussions
Index of my best videos
Quickstart guide to the forum
Reply



Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Once Again, Eusebius Was Full of Shit Minimalist 7 913 November 25, 2018 at 7:17 pm
Last Post: The Valkyrie
  Fuck This Xtian Nation Shit Minimalist 22 3061 April 10, 2018 at 8:08 pm
Last Post: Fireball
  This Kind Of Shit Pisses Me Off Minimalist 6 1585 January 20, 2017 at 11:20 am
Last Post: Minimalist
  So When Did The Pope Become Hot Shit? Minimalist 36 5357 June 10, 2016 at 2:09 pm
Last Post: Edwardo Piet
  Orrin Hatch Is Full Of Shit Minimalist 3 1085 March 31, 2016 at 12:50 pm
Last Post: vorlon13



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)