Unintelligent Desgin

[Cyberman]

From what I understand of the atheistic views, either natural "stuff" (for lack of a better word) had to pop out of nothing or else it was never created and has always existed, in some manner, in infinity.  You don't know what the answer is, so how can you rule out a supernatural creator - especially since so many reputable and trusted people have testified to experiences with the supernatural?

Try starting here:

[Shuffle]

You could ask the same, and anyone with half a brain would know the answer. It is all about mutation and natural selection. If there is a sudden environmental pressure for a certain herbivorous species to start eating meat, then whichever individual or group of that species is going to survive better than the others.

For example, there is a disease that wipes out all the plants in an area, and there is a species of herbovores there. Whichever animal has the sharpest teeth, the longest digestive track, the strongest stomach acid, and the best enzymes for digesting meat will survive and produce more than the animals that don't. His/her babies will have the same carnivorous traits, and their babies will, and so on and so on.

The herbivores would die off before anything like that could take place, no food no life, besides that's all speculation, you have no evidence.

I guess you are right... there is no evidence. There are no fossils. No genetic evidence. No germs evolving in labs. No differences in generations between any animals ever found. Nope... none.

[Shuffle]

Hm, interesting. 

WHAT?! GOD DID SOMETHING WRONG?! Better blame it on a fruit!

God has never done anything wrong. I do not find it strange that you have the low mentality to blame wrongs on something like fruit.

GC, I don't know what to say. The time I have spent trying to have discussions with you have been the most wasteful, unproductive times in my life. It is so sad to see a fellow human so deluded they can act the way you do. I don't want to continue any more discussions with you, therefore I ask you to never post on my threads again. You are either a poe, or the most deluded person I have ever had the disservice of talking to. If you do post, then I will not respond.

[Shuffle]

From what I understand of the atheistic views, either natural "stuff" (for lack of a better word) had to pop out of nothing or else it was never created and has always existed, in some manner, in infinity.  You don't know what the answer is, so how can you rule out a supernatural creator - especially since so many reputable and trusted people have testified to experiences with the supernatural?

Try starting here:

Potholer FOR THE WIN!!!!!!!

[Shuffle]

Would you say that you have a personal relationship with your god? If so, then how do you not understand the most fundemental questions of his actions?

And why did you ask me why things exist anyway?!

I have a personal relationship with God in that I can go directly to him with my concerns, but I don't have conversations with him.  I don't know his mind.  I know that Adam and Eve lived an idyllic existence before they disobeyed God and now they and all mankind does not.  How literal the story of the Garden of Eden is, I don't know.  But as far as the "bad" things that happen in the world go, I believe that experiencing them, with God taking us through  teaches us dependence on him and forms us into the people we need to be to inherit the kingdom of God.

The reason why I asked you why anything exists is that you were looking for a reason for "bad" things, but don't seem to care why the cosmos exists.

I don't care to know the reason for anything. Like I said, I only asked to understand the theist psyche better. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Lek]

Try starting here:

Potholer FOR THE WIN!!!!!!!

I like how the guy admits all the holes in the theory, but is 100% confident that it will be proven correct. But, anyway, it does nothing to answer the question about the existence of the cosmos. He also didn't address the fact that this process completely relies on all the chemicals involved to already exist prior to the beginning of the process. It's like answering the question of how a clock is made by saying that you take all the parts that already exist and assemble them. Do you think that there was a time that absolutely nothing existed and, after that something did exist? Or do you think that something always did exist in infinity?

[Shuffle]

Potholer FOR THE WIN!!!!!!!

I like how the guy admits all the holes in the theory, but is 100% confident that it will be proven correct.  But, anyway, it does nothing to answer the question about the existence of the cosmos.  He also didn't address the fact that this process completely relies on all the chemicals involved to already exist prior to the beginning of the process.  It's like answering the question of how a clock is made by saying that you take all the parts that already exist and assemble them.  Do you think that there was a time that absolutely nothing existed and, after that something did exist?  Or do you think that something always did exist in infinity?

Cosmology is not the same as biology, you idiot.

And yes, according to the Conservation of Mass and Energy, matter is eternal.

[Cyberman]

Did you not notice the title, Lek? There is one in the series called "The origin of the Universe made easy", but it's not this one because you were stuck on the wrong idea of life popping out of nothing. Now you're leaping Dolphinetically into the Universe popping out of nothing. Please make up your mind what you want to discuss.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

---

But wouldn't god be "just there"? Why replace one mystery with an even bigger one? In this case god would himself have no purpose. I say we stop the infinite regress before invoking the supernatural.

Organisms do things for a reason because they are trying to survive; the universe itself has no will and thus no agency. Thus, the universe never does anything for a reason other than "the laws of physics dictate that this will happen".

---

So the universe, or rather whatever makes up the universe, had no beginning.  There was just always something there with no beginning. and no end, since matter can neither be created nor destroyed.

Do you have a basic understanding of how hydrogen atoms go nuclear in stars and cook up heavier elements?  So of course matter can be created.  You're supposed to be a modern educated person; not some ignorant goat herder from 4,000 years ago.  Use your brain sometime.

[robvalue]

@All, general thoughts:

If a personal relationship with God just involves talking at him, getting nothing in return and just assuming he hears you, then I can have a personal relationship with puff the magic dragon or my table for that matter. It sounds just like talking to yourself.

There's nothing wrong with talking to yourself, however. I do it a lot. I talk out loud to myself, sometimes for comfort, and sometimes so I hear the words as it helps me think more objectively. I don't need to assume anyone else is involved to do this though.

Also, no one is generally "discounting" a supernatural creator, there is no need to discount anything. That's not how science works. We don't discount the whole of reality coming out of a magical bath, or being the manifestation of a thought process in another being's head. We don't need to say "I have discounted those things". We simply don't spend any time considering things until there is positive evidence that they are worth considering. We only have a limited amount of time in our lives, so to try and pursue every crazy notion anyone has would waste literally all our time. And considering "God" is always defined to be carefully out of the reach of science, we literally cannot investigate it. It's a pointless placeholder for a hole in knowledge which has no explanatory power.

All this is an argument from ignorance, and still only gets you to a deistic God. And it only gets you there because you've picked "magical God" out from the infinity of unfalisiable explain actions; why have you done this? Because you want it to be true. You don't want any of the others to be true. Yet there is no more evidence for a god than for the magic bath. Reality doesn't care what you want to be true, nor does it become more likely because someone indoctrinated you with a bunch of stories.

All your work is ahead of you to try and in any way correlate this arbitrarily picked deistic god with a story book, as well.

http://youtu.be/U0C1bC9iDss