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Deuteronomy 22:28-29
#21
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29
Studying the fucking bible doesn't mean shit when "reality" is involved, G-C.
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#22
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29
knew I had seen this somewhere:

[Image: c56caead1e2ae0661df8b6a97f850e4b.jpg]
"The family that prays together...is brainwashing their children."- Albert Einstein
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#23
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29
the responses seem quite one sided so i'll throw something in. there is a question of translation when it comes to a particular word in this verse. where it says 'rapes' it's worded differently in different versions. in the KJV for example, it says 'lay hold' which is not quite as harsh language. the NLT simply says 'has intercourse.' since there's disagreement among translations, we should investigate this further. the Hebrew word in question is taphas (תָּפַשׂ) and has a few meanings such as take, handle, hold, or wield. it can mean to seize, arrest, or catch; but it can also mean to grasp, wield, or use skillfully.
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lex...8610&t=KJV
so the use of the word in and of itself doesn't tell us exactly what it means, so we have to look at the context of its use. so what does the context tell us? well, 3 verses earlier in verse 25 it definitely mentions rape. but it uses a different word, chazaq (חָזַק), which is a more clearly states it's force, or rape.
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lex...2388&t=KJV

so from the evidence, it seems that the verse is actually talking about consensual premarital sex rather than rape. and the word chazaq used in verse 28 really is talking about seduction rather than force. if they wanted to mean rape, it would have made sense to use the same word they used 3 verses earlier. now, you can debate the ethics of gunshot weddings all you want... but it's certainly a much less severe case than what is portrayed in the OP.
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with senses, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use and by some other means to give us knowledge which we can attain by them.
-Galileo
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#24
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29
Is that better..in your estimation?  So, say my daughter decides to spread the legs for some schmuck, he owes -me- money?  That's civil...that's love.....that's the will of god? What am I, a fucking pimp?

No thanks. No thanks then...no thanks now.
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#25
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29
(September 21, 2015 at 6:06 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Is that better..in your estimation?  So, say my daughter decides to spread the legs for some schmuck, he owes -me- money?  That's civil...that's love.....that's the will of god?  What am I, a fucking pimp?

No thanks.  No thanks then...no thanks now.
as I said, you can debate the ethics of shotgun weddings but it's certainly a much less harsh issue than rape. shotgun weddings used to be common practice... and it wasn't that long ago either. even in the US it was considered 'the honorable thing' to take a woman as your wife when you take her purity (virginity) from her. nowadays, women are not seen so much as dependent on men. so it really has no place is our modern society... but that doesn't mean it was meaningless back then.

try to separate yourself from your social isolation for a minute to try and see there are social constructs and concepts that are foreign to your own... honor was a very big thing back then... not so much in the modern US. plus all marriages were arranged back then anyways. picking a husband/wife was a foreign concept.
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with senses, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use and by some other means to give us knowledge which we can attain by them.
-Galileo
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#26
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29
Quote:"28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives."

I take this to mean that god doesn't give a shit if they aren't discovered.

Cool, as long as I'm sneaky about it I can keep my silver.

Dodgy

Idiotic. 
I reject your reality and substitute my own!
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#27
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29
(September 21, 2015 at 6:53 pm)Spooky Wrote: I take this to mean that god doesn't give a shit if they aren't discovered.

Cool, as long as I'm sneaky about it I can keep my silver.

Dodgy

Idiotic. 
or you could take it as a Jewish law... and that they need evidence to convict someone...
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with senses, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use and by some other means to give us knowledge which we can attain by them.
-Galileo
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#28
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29
(September 21, 2015 at 7:44 pm)Rational AKD Wrote: or you could take it as a Jewish law... and that they need evidence to convict someone...

Because property doesn't get to bear witness for itself.

Idiotic.

Screw jewish law.
I reject your reality and substitute my own!
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#29
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29
(September 21, 2015 at 4:15 am)RaphielDrake Wrote: I would ask him firstly if he considers rape to be on a par with a pregnancy resulting from consensual sex. If not, congratulations, hes more more "civil" than the holy prophets who wrote Jewish law.

Secondly I would ask how it is that Jewish law changed and became "healthier" if the bible is the unchanging and inexorable word of god. If it was simply the work of man then what is it doing in the bible? If man changed the bible how can we ever distinguish between what is gods word and what isn't? If we simply go with what *feels* like gods word and thats different from what other people *feel* is gods word isn't that evidence we are simply cherry-picking from a book using our own morale preference thus making the book irrelevant?

Damn, you're not supposed to ask those difficult questions!  People will be giving BS answers for the next 1,000 years.
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#30
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29
(September 21, 2015 at 7:46 pm)Spooky Wrote: Because property doesn't get to bear witness for itself.

Idiotic.

Screw jewish law.
or that two people on different sides who have nothing but their words isn't enough... or two people who stay silent and aren't found can't be punished...
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with senses, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use and by some other means to give us knowledge which we can attain by them.
-Galileo
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