The Pope - After a Week In 'Murrica

[Crossless2.0]

The idea remains:

Not to stop giving to the Church because you don't want to support pedophelia.

Rather to stop giving to an organization until they fix a pretty fucking big problem.

^Yes, this^

It's not like you have to pay a cover charge to worship in your local Catholic church, and it's not as if Jesus directed his followers to sell everything they have and give it to the Church. It seems that you can have it both ways: attend the church of your choice and give what you might have contributed as an offering to an organization that carries out good work that largely conforms to your conscience.

[Whateverist]

It would make for a pretty awesome protest if all US Catholics started putting prayers written out on slips of paper the size of checks saying something like: "Praying for the church to make its priests subject to the laws of the land and to do nothing to hamper their meeting justice by those laws."

[Minimalist]

And on the topic of the Los Angeles Archdiocese:


Even without the pedophilia scandal, such misplaced priorities in spending would keep me from actively tithing. What a skewed sense of priorities! A million-dollar chair?!

While I agree with you, would you say this is equivalent to government spending on things you deem needless, but alas it's far worse in that you cannot choose not to pay taxes to support it, and if you do, you go to prison.

But catholics DO have a choice to quit and demonstrate their displeasure.  Many have.  That some have not is what is under scrutiny.

[Minimalist]

I don't think you quite grasp the seriousness of the allegations against these holy horseshitters, king.

This lying shit is archbishop of NY and front and center with pope frank this week.



Yet, as we learned from the Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/04/opinio....html?_r=0

Tragic as the sexual abuse scandal in the Roman Catholic Church has been, it is shocking to discover that Cardinal Timothy Dolan, while archbishop of Milwaukee, moved $57 million off the archdiocesan books into a cemetery trust fund six years ago in order to protect the money from damage suits by victims of abuse by priests.

Cardinal Dolan, now the archbishop of New York, has denied shielding the funds as an “old and discredited” allegation and “malarkey.” But newly released court documents make it clear that he sought and received fast approval from the Vatican to transfer the money just as the Wisconsin Supreme Court was about to open the door to damage suits by victims raped and abused as children by Roman Catholic clergy.

So, this holy joe is a liar.

Cardinal Dolan was not a Milwaukee prelate during most of the abuse cases, but he faced a costly aftermath of troubles and warned the Vatican in 2003: “As victims organize and become more public, the potential for true scandal is very real.” The documents showed how the Vatican slowly took years to allow dioceses to defrock embarrassing priests. Yet the same bureaucracy approved Cardinal Dolan’s $57 million transfer just days after the Wisconsin court allowed victims’ damage suits.

And please don't even pretend that the fucking pope did not know what was going on.  You don't hide that shit from the king.

[Losty]

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Ok, I honestly can see BOTH sides of this.  I fully understand the emotional pull many have on here being ex-Catholic or family members who are Catholic as well as seeing the innumerable stories of pedophilia in the Church and the associated cover ups.  

Let's be fair here.  We all agree that child molestation is abhorrent.  We all agree that perpetrators and those that help them should be held accountable.  We all agree that victims should be compensated. 

Every day we support things that we may or may not know are doing immoral things or shady things.  Ever buy something at Wal-Mart?  Ever buy Nike shoes?  I'm sure you are aware of the child labor in the sweatshops over products these brands sell.  Sure it's not molestation, but is it right?  Are you supporting it when you make a purchase there, when other options are available?  

Catholics are not giving their money to intentionally support pedophilia or help cover it up, we all know this.  Just because those in power do those things, does not mean those doing good for the church need to suffer.  This is not something that can be fixed over night and admittedly they had steps in the right direction, IMO.  Most people are tithing to the local church/diocese.  If there is found something going on there and it is not swiftly dealt with, then I would agree an appropriate response would be to withhold tithing or move to a different diocese, but that's not what you seem to be proposing.  You seem to be saying, please correct me if I'm wrong, that all Catholics should stop supporting their local churches/diocese, because of the faults of others in different states/countries.  I just don't think that's fair to those doing things the right way.  I understand the motivation, but not sure it's the right answer.

---

My bold.

I'd also like to say that not all those in power do these things, lol. It's not like everyone in the Vatican took wrong actions. The handful of those who did are guilty, but it's not like everyone was in on it. I'm sure that's what you meant, King, but wanted to specify for the others.    

I agree with this post 100%. Thanks for explaining it when I was not of the right temperament to do so.

Who were the ones that, when they found out, stood up and said this is disgusting and unacceptable and I will do everything in my power to cooperate with authorities and see these perpetrators brought to justice? Because it seemed to me that once it started coming out the all banded together to hide things and protect each other.

[brewer]

Has the vaticans position changed regarding excommunication for not keeping the "obligation of silence" since 2-2014, the date of the article I was reading?

[Minimalist]

Who were the ones that, when they found out, stood up and said this is disgusting and unacceptable and I will do everything in my power to cooperate with authorities and see these perpetrators brought to justice?

Well it sure as fuck wasn't Dolan, was it?

[Salacious B. Crumb]

I'd also like to say that not all those in power do these things, lol. It's not like everyone in the Vatican took wrong actions. The handful of those who did are guilty, but it's not like everyone was in on it. I'm sure that's what you meant, King, but wanted to specify for the others.    

I agree with this post 100%. Thanks for explaining it when I was not of the right temperament to do so.

This is why people get upset when trying to have a conversation with you, C_L. You get stuck on these ideas like "not everyone was in the wrong." That is clear, and a given. No one is saying that every single person is culpable. What we are saying is that the Church as an organization is still hiding assets, obfuscating and shuffling perpetrators, and not compensating victims. Again, not every priest is a molester, but there are still people that have molested children who are active priests. There are still Churches whom the Vatican allows to claim insolvency rather than pay victims of child rape; all the while there are items in the Vatican vault whose value lies in the hundreds of millions.

Could you please respond to PT's or my statements earlier?

It seems, from my end, that you are either incapable or simply unwilling of seeing fault in the hierarchical organization as a whole---not individual priests or parishes.