The Obsession with Discussing the Supposed Rudeness of Atheists

[Kingpin]

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I will grant you that certain assumptions can be made depending on the self attributed label.  I'm a theist, so it is safe for you to assume I believe in God, because if I didn't then as you said I would be stupid for labeling myself as a theist.  But if I identify as a theist, you cannot assume what branch of theism I follow.  I identify as Christian.  This gives you more info to glean assumptions from, for example, you can assume I believe in the God of the Bible, that Jesus Christ lived, died and was resurrected.  Nothing really beyond that since there are "Christians" who believe all are/will be saved, that only the elect will be saved, pre-tribulation, post-tribulation, no tribulation, original sin, no original sin, old earth, young earth, creation, evolution, etc.  You could assume, but you might be incorrect.

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I said this in the other thread as well, it's when people get told what they believe by someone else is when they tend to get upset.  

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I always try to ask what someone believes about something I wish to discuss before asking and assuming I know what they believe based on how the identify and label themselves.

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I have found quite a few people who get upset when one takes them at their word and one assumes that they are not clueless morons when they label themselves.  Isn't the whole point of putting a label on oneself to tell others about oneself?  When you say, "I am a Christian," do you not intend to convey some information with that sentence?  Like, that you are a Christian?  Please understand, I am not accusing you of the failing of which I am presently writing.  I do not recall you ever mislabeling yourself.

But with some clueless morons who mislabel themselves, when one assumes that they have labeled themselves accurately, they sometimes get upset and accuse one of telling them what they believe, when the reality is that one merely took them at their word.  They ought not be offended when one pays attention to what they say and takes them at their word, but, being clueless morons, they do not do what they ought to do.

Everyone who says that they are theists, ought not be offended if someone supposes that they believe in a god of some sort.  The same idea applies for every label that people use for themselves.  If you label yourself, you ought not be upset if others accept the label for you.

Often they will bring up the idea that they have the "right" to label themselves anyway they want.  However that may be, it is irrelevant to the fact that if one makes false claims about what one is, one ought not be surprised if others suppose that one is intending the truth.  It is then one's own fault that there is a miscommunication, not the fault of the person who is in that situation being accused of telling the other person what he believes.

yes I agree with you.  Applying a label to oneself is to convey a message of belonging to a defined set if ideas.  So yes one must be careful in labeling themselves accurately and understanding the presuppositions others take by knowing you label yourself as such.  Where people get in to trouble is assuming a certain label believes certain things when they may not.  Which is what I was pointing it my "Christian" label.  I'm Christian, but does that tell you where I stand on the rapture, if I accept evolution or if I believe in gay rights?  No, but you may assume.  So one must understand the reasonable assumptions of a label and stay away from the unsubstantiated extrapolations.  

I'm a Christian.  I am not a Westboro Baptist.

[Thumpalumpacus]

... which is exactly why I made explicitly clear why I say it.

You did read that part, right?

I also do this, explicitly make clear that I am not saying "God bless you", but deliberately using another term.

In French (Spanish and Italian have almost-identical words), the term is "Salut" (sah'-loo), and it simply means "health".

German is similar, meaning "good health". They are wishes of prosperity.

"(May) God bless you" is an expression of superstition, from a time when people believed that sneezing was a sign of evil spirits in the air trying to possess you, and the blessing was to ward off the evil spirits. I think that people, even Christians, would do well to abandon this concept.

Then again, I think the same of saying a blessing for the food about to be consumed (thanking God for the bounty is another matter), that the evil spirits might be cast out and the food not harm its consumers.

I wonder why more Christians don't take umbrage with the Germ Theory of Disease, since it's what destroyed those two concepts.

As I said, I do also use "salud", a habit I picked up when I lived in Spain.

[vorlon13]

For me being insulting depends on the situation.

Even when a get religious people knocking on my door, I tended to be polite and say "thanks for your thoughts, but I'm not interested".

That ended one day when I had worked a 16 hour shift close to Christmas one year, finally got home at 2pm, had a shower and was just starting to nod off on the couch when there was a loud bang on my door.

Bloody Mormons.  They even ignored the sign I had put up that says "this is an atheist household.  Do not knock if you are pushing religion"

They were told to fuck off.

Holy SHIT !!, I'd like a shot at some brethren.  I'd love to ask about the 6 (so far) mutually inconsistent versions Joe Smith gave about his first visitation and why the Mormon church does NOT recognize the only version that is penned entirely in Joseph Smith's hand.


Damn, the rest of you paganistical atheist baby eaters would revere me as a God if I had me 2 Mormon pelts (unconverts) mounted on the wall in my study.

[vorlon13]

But telling them to "Fuck off" is good too.

[Minimalist]

Not as good as skinning the bastards.

[Homeless Nutter]

Holy SHIT !!, I'd like a shot at some brethren.  I'd love to ask about the 6 (so far) mutually inconsistent versions Joe Smith gave about his first visitation and why the Mormon church does NOT recognize the only version that is penned entirely in Joseph Smith's hand.
[...]

I thought Smith couldn't write - he could barely read. Which is why he enlisted help of gullible morons, like Martin Harris, to write down his "translation" of the golden plates.

[TheRocketSurgeon]

o/` Dum dum dum dum dum... o/`

[The Valkyrie]

I've argued with them when they've come to my door in the past.

In this instance I was just too damned tired.

[Simon Moon]

Let me get this straight...

They're the ones that believe in a god that will punish us for eternity for the simple finite crime of not being convinced he exists?

And they actually worship said deity as if this is moral?

And we're the ones being rude?!

[Rhondazvous]

Stereotyping or generalizing people is always bad.  People are individuals and may choose to label themselves under certain banners, but that in no way gives anyone the right to assume what they believe or how they behave without getting to know them personally.

That's true, although religious leaders have for tens of thousands of years tried to get all their followers to believe and act in one uniform manner, with only limited success.

Except for you and Catholic Lady, the Christians who came here typically say the same things. Each new Christian who comes in parrots the same arguments I've been seeing since I first came here. So it's hard to see individuals. And to tell the truth, I don't want to see them as individuals because they have already betrayed their intentions. They might change their tactics, but their intentions will remain the same. Why should I cultivate a friendship only to find out it was based on the hope of converting me?