What the Hell,is Hell anyway?

[robvalue]

So me asking why Mordor is fictional is a ridiculous question not even worthy of consideration.

How do we know Tolkein didn't go to Mordor? Sure, he can say it's fictional, but that doesn't mean it is. Even if he intended the book to be fiction, does his opinion about Mordor affect whether Mordor is real or not?

What if me and a group of my friends all believe it is real? How can you say it is fictional?

This is a serious point. How do we determine what is real and what isn't? Theists? What makes you so sure Mordor isn't real? Can you prove it isn't?

[Edwardo Piet]

I could try to prove it wasn't real, but that would just be to deceive you because Mordor is my true abode.

[robvalue]

I'm wondering whether this is worth it's own topic

I would love to get theists to actually think about this, and how they justify instantly dismissing some things as fiction. I'm not saying they are wrong to do so, but I want them to think about why they do it.

[houseofcantor]

Robvalue - now wanting theists to think. Dammit, AF - I think you broke Rob. 

[Edwardo Piet]

They won't care, they think their holy books are special... it won't affect them at all, they will think we're being silly even though LOTR is written so much more clearly than any holy book... I would have thought the creator of the universe would have been a better writer

[robvalue]

If they dismiss the question as silly, then they can't complain when we reject anything they say about their religion just as swiftly. I think it would really help them understand our point of view if they did this mental exercise.

[Edwardo Piet]

"Can't" complain? Oh they will!

You think it will help them understand? You're far more optimistic than me!

[ignoramus]

Rob, they won't bite!
Once you mention something fictitious, if the woo is not in the bible, then it's just bullshit.
You see God through the divine bible has exclusive patents on:

all life
all morality
all sexual activities
all punishment
all supernatural events

So the minute you introduce an external influence, like the evil scientific method, or logic, they shut their mind instinctively to protect themselves from being contaminated by the devil.

[Edwardo Piet]

[robvalue]

Yeah...

I've tried to make constructive threads like this before and they generally bomb. They just get ignored. It's a shame, because I think it could be really interesting for both sides. I can "play the theist" and argue for the existence of Mordor.

Sam: I'd use uber-logic, of course!