Posts: 9147
Threads: 83
Joined: May 22, 2013
Reputation:
46
RE: Witness Evidence
December 5, 2015 at 10:48 am
(December 5, 2015 at 10:30 am)RoadRunner79 Wrote: So we have to see it for ourselves? And then we have to trust that our observations are accurate... correct? You are focused too much on the mode of communication, and not enough on the social context. If I believe you, you don't need to provide anything other than a comment. If I do not believe you, then you have to establish that you are believable-- something that is very hard, indeed-- or provide evidence that is very hard to disbelieve.
This is the thing. . . there's no golden standard for the PROVIDER of information. It is the receiver who must be convinced who gets to set the standard.
Posts: 6609
Threads: 73
Joined: May 31, 2014
Reputation:
56
RE: Witness Evidence
December 5, 2015 at 10:51 am
(December 5, 2015 at 10:30 am)RoadRunner79 Wrote: Does this apply to yourself as well?
Applies to everyone pretty much. No one testimony can be fully trusted. For mundane claims, it doesn't matter much because, true or not, the claim is mundane and doesn't require serious consideration. But when it is a serious claim, then evidence needs to be there to back up someone's testimony. Otherwise, it would be dangerously easy for example to declare innocent people guilty just by providing some testimony against them. It would also mean we should take anyone's words that some super fascinating extremely unlikely event happened even if we can't verify it for ourselves. Jesus' resurrection for example.
Posts: 13901
Threads: 263
Joined: January 11, 2009
Reputation:
82
RE: Witness Evidence
December 5, 2015 at 12:14 pm
24 pages of "I think witness statements are reliable!", "We disagree, here's why", "I think witness statements are reliable" and on it goes....
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.
Posts: 9147
Threads: 83
Joined: May 22, 2013
Reputation:
46
RE: Witness Evidence
December 5, 2015 at 12:26 pm
(December 5, 2015 at 12:14 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: 24 pages of "I think witness statements are reliable!", "We disagree, here's why", "I think witness statements are reliable" and on it goes....
I can attest to that!
errr. . . wait 
Posts: 6609
Threads: 73
Joined: May 31, 2014
Reputation:
56
RE: Witness Evidence
December 5, 2015 at 1:07 pm
And OP, no more word plays please. Be honest.
Posts: 69247
Threads: 3759
Joined: August 2, 2009
Reputation:
259
RE: Witness Evidence
December 5, 2015 at 1:08 pm
The Chicago Police have just released the "witness testimony" of the cops who were present at the McDonald shooting.
The phrase "one lies and the others swear to it" springs to mind.
http://www.rawstory.com/2015/12/chicago-...-mcdonald/
Quote:The documents reportedly state that at least five officers, including Officer Jason Van Dyke, said that 17-year-old McDonald approached officers while armed with a knife, even though the videotape of the October 2014 shooting showed McDonald veering away from officers before he was shot 16 times. At least one of the officers said in the report that the black teen advanced on the officers and swung his knife at them in an "aggressive, exaggerated manner" before he was shot and killed.
Officers also claimed that McDonald tried to lift himself off the ground with the knife even after being shot repeatedly by Van Dyke, the Chicago police officer who was charged last month with the murder of the teenager.
I assume we've all seen the tape by now. If further evidence were needed about the unreliability of "witness testimony" I don't know what it would be.
But I'm sure the jesus freaks think otherwise because...at the end of the day...they are bullshit artists too.
Posts: 4196
Threads: 60
Joined: September 8, 2011
Reputation:
30
RE: Witness Evidence
December 5, 2015 at 2:21 pm
(December 5, 2015 at 10:30 am)RoadRunner79 Wrote: (December 5, 2015 at 8:14 am)bennyboy Wrote: We would apply this by not accepting witness statements as evidence in any context where being able to establish the veracity of evidence is important to us.
So we have to see it for ourselves? And then we have to trust that our observations are accurate... correct?
Eyewitness testimony is unreliable, including our own, as shown time and time again, but it can help lead to evidence that is reliable. That is why science has peer review and does not count on testimony, but rather replicable information.
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders
Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
Posts: 4196
Threads: 60
Joined: September 8, 2011
Reputation:
30
RE: Witness Evidence
December 5, 2015 at 2:26 pm
(This post was last modified: December 5, 2015 at 2:29 pm by IATIA.)
(December 5, 2015 at 10:51 am)Irrational Wrote: But when it is a serious claim, then evidence needs to be there to back up someone's testimony. Otherwise, it would be dangerously easy for example to declare innocent people guilty just by providing some testimony against them.
Which is exactly what happened in the days of "witch burnings". All one had to say was, "She's a witch" and the trial was, if she lived through it she was a witch. And that of course was a death sentence, so if one was called a witch then death was inevitable for the accused. On "testimony".
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders
Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
Posts: 69247
Threads: 3759
Joined: August 2, 2009
Reputation:
259
RE: Witness Evidence
December 5, 2015 at 3:59 pm
Quote:Otherwise, it would be dangerously easy for example to declare innocent people guilty just by providing some testimony against them.
Which is what happens today.
http://www.innocenceproject.org/free-inn...nationwide
Quote:Eyewitness Misidentification Testimony was a factor in more than 70 percent percent of post-conviction DNA exoneration cases in the U.S., making it the leading cause of these wrongful convictions.
So, no. When you can produce those 500 witnesses for fucking jesus and I can cross-examine them then we'll reconsider your rather silly point of view.
Posts: 28283
Threads: 522
Joined: June 16, 2015
Reputation:
90
RE: Witness Evidence
December 5, 2015 at 5:11 pm
(December 5, 2015 at 9:50 am)bennyboy Wrote: (December 5, 2015 at 8:25 am)mh.brewer Wrote: Stop trying to bait the trap. No one here is taking the bait. You might as well move on to your next attempt/position/argument.
Me?
Nope. RR.
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental.
|
