God's opinion of deformities

[robvalue]

That is a very sad story

They forget, all the time, that God plays all sides. If the rules are set up so that the best way for them to "learn something" is through making a deformed baby which suffers and dies, then he made the rules that way. He could have just as easily made it so they learnt the same lesson in a way that involved no suffering for anyone.

Unless of course, he didn't make the rules at all.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

The logical step in such cases as you cited is to state that the afflicted person didn't have a soul and therefore never suffered at all. Remember Job and his first family. God and Satan had a bet about Job's soul. So they killed Job's first family to see if Job would maintain his faith. That made Job's first family nothing but disposable trash because there was no consideration given about the welfare of their souls. It was all about Job, who had the only soul that mattered.

The woman might have loved her child but she considers her soul to be the one that matters; not her child's.

[robvalue]

Clearly it still made her sad though, soul or not.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

Clearly it still made her sad though, soul or not.

A person can become sad if he wrecks his car.  

The woman's attitude is found in all religions.  A misfortune happens to someone and it becomes all about the survivor and how some deity is testing them.  I suppose it's a good coping mechanism when something really bad happens.

[robvalue]

Good point, religion often seems to be one giant coping mechanism.

If God was as good and as powerful as they claim, I wouldn't expect sadness to ever appear under any circumstances.

[Fidel_Castronaut]

Orangebox I think most people would see it unfair if an all powerful being decided to give people given disabilities for...some reason.

I'm sure you recognize that appealing to 'most people' to validate a truth claim isn't a good reason.

We're not talking about truth claims. To be clear, we're talking specifically about your amazing ability to try and convince by obfuscating over a simple term that 'most people' have a broadly similar understanding of.

Like I said, is this what you believe your God had in mind for these kind of debates when it supposedly created both the term and the children in question? I'd appreciate an answer, as I'm sure rob does to the OP. Hiding behind a nonsensical attempt to define what is in actuality a non-existent issue in rob's OP is actually quite funny.

In sure your Jesus isn't laughing though. I'm sure if you pray hard enough the cognitive dissonance can disappear.

[RoadRunner79]

In another thread, miaharun asked some good questions about the fairness of the xtian gawd, including this one: "Why are people born deformed ? Imagine how a deformed person will suffer in life."  (Now, we know that miaharun is not asking for a scientific explanation - it was more of a list of injustices that would make no sense if a deity who was involved in human affairs existed.)

I would like to point out that, according to Leviticus, Yahweh is a LOT more unfair than just allowing children to be born with deformities. They are born deformed, and then punished for being deformed.  They aren't allowed in the temple. 

"For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous, Or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded, Or crookbackt, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken. No man that hath a blemish of the seed of Aaron the priest shall come nigh to offer the offerings of the Lord made by fire: he hath a blemish; he shall not come nigh to offer the bread of his God." (Leviticus 21:18-21) 

Of course, there were all sorts of restrictions regarding who could enter the temple.  No bastard was allowed in, to the TENTH generation of his descendents. No male who had any damage to his genital area.  Nobody suffering from disease.  And, of course, even if a woman has been ritually purified, she has sub-human status.  

But don't get us started on how the gawd of the wholly babble is unfair, right? There's too much ammunition there, that discussion would take decades.

There where extra requirements of the priests to bring an offering to the Lord. This had to do with being Holy and set apart (and yes did include physical deformities which where no fault of their own).. It foreshadows the perfect priest and sacrifice that was yet to come. I think you are taking the verse out of context, to try and make an unfair accusation and emotional argument.

[GrandizerII]

In another thread, miaharun asked some good questions about the fairness of the xtian gawd, including this one: "Why are people born deformed ? Imagine how a deformed person will suffer in life."  (Now, we know that miaharun is not asking for a scientific explanation - it was more of a list of injustices that would make no sense if a deity who was involved in human affairs existed.)

I would like to point out that, according to Leviticus, Yahweh is a LOT more unfair than just allowing children to be born with deformities. They are born deformed, and then punished for being deformed.  They aren't allowed in the temple. 

"For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous, Or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded, Or crookbackt, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken. No man that hath a blemish of the seed of Aaron the priest shall come nigh to offer the offerings of the Lord made by fire: he hath a blemish; he shall not come nigh to offer the bread of his God." (Leviticus 21:18-21) 

Of course, there were all sorts of restrictions regarding who could enter the temple.  No bastard was allowed in, to the TENTH generation of his descendents. No male who had any damage to his genital area.  Nobody suffering from disease.  And, of course, even if a woman has been ritually purified, she has sub-human status.  

But don't get us started on how the gawd of the wholly babble is unfair, right? There's too much ammunition there, that discussion would take decades.

There where extra requirements of the priests to bring an offering to the Lord.  This had to do with being Holy and set apart (and yes did include physical deformities which where no fault of their own)..  It foreshadows the perfect priest and sacrifice that was yet to come.  I think you are taking the verse out of context, to try and make an unfair accusation and emotional argument.

Foreshadows according to?

It seems you're taking the verse out of context because you're forcing a relationship between the OT and what is later taught in the NT.

[RoadRunner79]

Foreshadows according to?

It seems you're taking the verse out of context because you're forcing a relationship between the OT and what is later taught in the NT.

How do you think that I am taking it out of context?

[drfuzzy]

There where extra requirements of the priests to bring an offering to the Lord.  This had to do with being Holy and set apart (and yes did include physical deformities which where no fault of their own)..  It foreshadows the perfect priest and sacrifice that was yet to come.  I think you are taking the verse out of context, to try and make an unfair accusation and emotional argument.

Foreshadows according to?

It seems you're taking the verse out of context because you're forcing a relationship between the OT and what is later taught in the NT.

Ok, wait.  Sure, we know about the requirements that an animal, that was to be slaughtered to appease GAWD had to be absolutely f*ckn perfect. Yeah, yeah, yadda yadda. A goat or a sheep that had a weird coloration or a funny-shaped ear wouldn't do for a gawd who demanded BLOOD from a creature who had no conscious awareness of self - and this was to atone for the sins of a human being.  RIIGHT.  Does this make ANY sense to a modern human that hasn't been brainwashed into the point of . . . _______   someone fill in the blank for me, because I just drew one.
And don't give me that crap about how all of the poor animals were just a precursor to the wonderful GOD who was going to take their place. Bullshit.  AND, why did gawd wait? Why were there precursors in the first place? Why did all of these innocents have to die before the REAL DUDE showed up? UNLESS . . . (gasp!!!) . . . all of that "blood appeasing the gods" crap was bullshit in the first place?

Perfect priest, perfect sacrifice, perfect judgmentalism, perfect xenophobia, perfect tribal rules, perfect moronic CRAP. Refusing one of your own because they were born DIFFERENT. When will human kind learn to accept the disabled as equal human beings?