Veganism & vegetarianism

[Thumpalumpacus]

<double post edited>

[Aractus]

Oh for fucks sake, shut up. Proselytizing about what other people eat makes you annoying as bird shit on a freshly washed car.

Why is the flesh of fish not considered meat?  I've always wondered that.

It is considered to be meat. It's just processed meats (ham, salami, etc) that are not considered to be meat, and are considered to be a part of the "discretionary foods" food group. With that said, most dieticians, and heart and cancer foundations, have the additional recommendation that people should consume fish at least twice a week.

Oh, dear, you've climbed atop your high horse again.

MY high horse? Have you studied nutrition?

Vegetarian diets that include dairy and eggs can he helpful for some people, although it's still not a great idea long-term (and in fact 84% return to eating meat, and 70% for vegans) . Health professionals emphasise reducing consumption of meat to be within the consumer guidelines, not elimination. Vegetarians are more likely to suffer an eating disorder, or other mental health problem:

     I was stunned. The next day, I mentioned my discovery to my colleague Candice Boan-Lenzo, a psychologist who has not eaten meat for fifteen years. Did she know that vegetarians are at higher risk for developing eating disorders?
      "Oh yes," she says. "I tell my graduate students about it every semester."
      "What do they say?" I ask.
      "They don't believe me," she says. (Psych. today, c. previous link).

Ain't that the goddamned truth. I've seen exactly the same behaviour from students (mostly early-20 females) in nutrition courses. Some of them even presented "facts" in their presentations that were flat-out wrong, like vegans being able to get B12 and vitamin d from mushrooms, and that non-vegans are just as likely to become B12 deficient. I was shocked. I was like "well, we know one of you in that group is a vegan then".

Have you studied nutrition? No? Then you have no place to criticise. The ONLY diets that are suitable to be promoted to a wide demographic are the consumer guidelines (AGHE & similar) and DASH, and that's it. People can, and should, find out what's right for them specifically, but cutting out entire food groups is extreme and not recommended.

[Silver]

Of course medical professionals emphasize at least reducing meat consumption. The problem with 'Murica is that it does not do anything in moderation. Moderation is key for most anything. 'Muricans want their meat like they want their guns, readily available all the freaking time.

Meat is not bad. Meat is good and nutritional, in moderation.

After all, drinking water in excess can kill an individual.

The problem is that people do not properly study nutritional needs. Rather, they want to follow silly fads.

[robvalue]

Rhythm: Hey interesting point, I didn't know that about the canine teeth! Or whatever they're called. It's a pity I didn't know that back then. I'm sure the idiot would have just moved on to one of the other bingo "arguments" in order to continue to project onto me. He was such a cock.

I'm grown up now, so I no longer get angry about this fucking bastard kind of enormous wank puppetry shitting in my face fuckballs. I just move the conversation in a different direction as soon as possible, maybe by distracting them with a yoyo.

[Aractus]

Rhythm: Hey interesting point, I didn't know that about the canine teeth! Or whatever they're called. It's a pity I didn't know that back then. I'm sure the idiot would have just moved on to one of the other bingo "arguments" in order to continue to project onto me. He was such a cock.

I'm grown up now, so I no longer get angry about this fucking bastard kind of enormous wank puppetry shitting in my face fuckballs. I just move the conversation in a different direction as soon as possible, maybe by distracting them with a yoyo.

What the fuck is wrong with you? I haven't once in this thread insulted you, and yet you come back and call me a fucking bastard? Why because I study this, and in a year's time I'll be qualified to practise as a nutritionist if I choose? And I'm giving you free scientific and up to date information you ungrateful rat.

You're every bit as delusional as a theist.

You have your confirmation-bias, and cling to your supposed "facts".

MentalGiant said he follows 80/10/10 by Doug Graham.

In the book Graham doesn't recommend B12 supplements for vegans, or even getting tested. He claims you'll get enough if you "don't obsessively wash your fruit and veg", and to prefer fruit and veg grown in "richly composted organic soil" despite there being absolutely no evidence for that assertion of his. He also says not to use toothpaste, and to brush and floss with only water. He claims that your body will convert all the ALA to DHA that it needs; again this is not supported by any evidence at all. The scientific litterateur says that the human body can only convert a small amount of ALA to DHA; and it appears the conversion rate gets worse, not better, for vegans. Is it any wonder that people get cavities following this diet? He doesn't even know that it is sugar that causes cavities. It is the only thing in whole foods that causes cavities, which is why so many people on 80/10/10 get cavities. Bacteria ferment the sugar, this creates acid, and that creates caries which can then progress to cavities. People who eat a lot of fruit eat a lot of naturally occurring sugar, and that leads to directly to cavities. Finally, he also claims medication shouldn't be needed if you have a balanced 80/10/10 diet - which is bullshit.

I'm not claiming any of those are your arguments Robv, but I'm pointing out to you that they're terrible arguments and advice that need to be ignored for health.

[Longhorn]

Um...I don't think he meant you, Aractus, but the kid he mentioned earlier.

Relax.

[robvalue]

No, I wasn't talking about you Aractus. You're on my block list, so I'm never responding to things you say.

[Aractus]

Yeah that's right, ignore the one person here semi-qualified on the issue, ass.

[robvalue]

Apology accepted.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Oh, dear, you've climbed atop your high horse again.

MY high horse? Have you studied nutrition?

Yeah, that exchange is kinda my point. You walk in swinging some unknown credentials about, as if we should all kowtow to your alleged CV; meanwhile, you write shit that, like in the vaccine thread, reveals a thin knowledge. I'm not talking only about this thread; I don't pay much attention to nutrition outside what my body tells me. I do pay attention to my bullshit detector. And -- I do pay attention to some asshole who pretends to know it all, hectors others about victim-blaming, goes on to do the same thing himself, and then cloaks himself in self-proclaimed glory. Who here knows anything about you other than what you post? And based on your posting, why should anyone think you are anything other than a below-average thinker who clearly has burnished his own ego? Do you really think no one sees through it?

Listen, kid -- everyone already knows you have a high opinion of yourself. You don't need to emphasize that anymore. Everyone also knows that for all your alleged book knowledge, you haven't learnt how to suss things out. You haven't learnt how to apply your knowledge to the real world, and you certainly haven't learnt a goddamned thing about how to interact with people.

I'm sure you're impressing yourself as you press the "submit" button, but quite frankly, you and your insecurities are transparent. You want to impress folks with your knowledge? Why don't you start with a knowledge of people first? That way, you won't look like a raging cunt.

You have a nice day now.