School question

[Harden1313]

Hi everyone,

I'm an Atheist having a debate with a moron and I need help. I'm trying to figure out if and where "creation science" is being offered in public school science classes. Has it been taught in public schools since 68 and if so I need a citation or web link. I know places like Louisiana and Texas are good spots to look but I just can't find anything. Anyone out there able to help?

Pat

[Paul the Human]

The earliest creation science texts and curricula focused upon concepts derived from a literal interpretation of the Bible and were overtly religious in nature, most notably linking Noah's flood in the Biblical Genesis account to the geological and fossil record in a system termed "flood geology". These works attracted little notice beyond the schools and congregations of conservative fundamental and evangelical Christians until the 1970s when its followers challenged the teaching of evolution in the public schools and other venues in the United States, bringing it to the attention of the public-at-large and the scientific community. Many school boards and lawmakers were persuaded to include the teaching of creation science alongside Darwinian evolution in the science curriculum.[7] Creation science texts and curricula used in churches and Christian schools were revised to eliminate their Biblical and theological references, and less explicitly sectarian versions of creation science education were introduced in public schools in Louisiana, Arkansas, and other regions in the United States.[7][8]

The Entire Wiki Page

"The 1970's" is kind of vague, but it doesn't sound like he's far off the mark.

[Harden1313]

I was told to check out the movie "Flock of Dodos" where in it they interview a school that voted to adopt a curriculum that includes intelligent design theories but without having a copy I haven't been able to find anything concrete.

[Darwinian]

"creation science" Isn't that an oxymoron?

Anyway, welcome along and I'm sure someone will be able to help you.

[Paul the Human]

Flock of Dodos Wiki Page

This movie was made in 2006. Read the Wiki page. It doesn't sound like proof of anything.

I had to laugh at this part...

Olson invited the Discovery Institute, a hub of the intelligent design movement, to appear in the movie, but rather the institute responded by creating a website, Hoax of Dodos, characterizing the documentary as "revisionist history," and a "hoax" filled with inaccuracies and misrepresentations.[9]

[Ashendant]

The earliest creation science texts and curricula focused upon concepts derived from a literal interpretation of the Bible and were overtly religious in nature, most notably linking Noah's flood in the Biblical Genesis account to the geological and fossil record in a system termed "flood geology". These works attracted little notice beyond the schools and congregations of conservative fundamental and evangelical Christians until the 1970s when its followers challenged the teaching of evolution in the public schools and other venues in the United States, bringing it to the attention of the public-at-large and the scientific community. Many school boards and lawmakers were persuaded to include the teaching of creation science alongside Darwinian evolution in the science curriculum.[7] Creation science texts and curricula used in churches and Christian schools were revised to eliminate their Biblical and theological references, and less explicitly sectarian versions of creation science education were introduced in public schools in Louisiana, Arkansas, and other regions in the United States.[7][8]

The Entire Wiki Page

"The 1970's" is kind of vague, but it doesn't sound like he's far off the mark.

also

In 1987, the United States Supreme Court ruled that creationism is religion, not science, and cannot be advocated in public school classrooms.[80]

[Harden1313]

From the wiki:

"The teaching of creation science in public schools in the United States effectively ended in 1987 following the United States Supreme Court decision in Edwards v. Aguillard.[3] The court affirmed that a statute requiring the teaching of creation science alongside evolution when evolution is taught in Louisiana public schools was unconstitutional because its sole true purpose was to advance a particular religious belief.[9]"

So in the late 80's they were still teaching it (if I'm right in my interpretation of this). Seems from the reading that at various times up into the 80's individual states made laws that forced schools to either include it or bar it (like Arkansas). Does this mean that after 1987 it was illegal to teach it in ANY public school? Were their loop holes? Do schools still have the right to vote on it and include it if they wish?

From Religioustolerance.org:

"An Arkansas state law (#590), passed in 1981, mandated the teaching of Creation Science in schools. Equal time was to be given also to evolution. A legal action 1 was mounted (McLean vs. Arkansas, 1981) to overturn the law. Scientists and many main-line Christian Churches were pitted against conservative Christian groups. The law was declared unconstitutional
A similar "Creationism Act" was passed in Louisiana. It required that either both or neither evolution and creation science be taught in the public schools. Some Louisiana parents, teachers, and religious leaders challenged the Act's constitutionality in Federal District Court. They won an injunction which was affirmed by the Court of Appeals and the Supreme Court. 2 By a 7 to 2 vote, the act was found to violate the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the U.S. constitution. The Supreme Court found:

"...the Act evinces a discriminatory preference for the teaching of creation science and against the teaching of evolution by:
bullet requiring that curriculum guides be developed and resource services supplied for teaching creationism but not for teaching evolution,
bullet by limiting membership on the resource services panel to 'creation scientists,' and
bullet by forbidding school boards to discriminate against anyone who 'chooses to be a creation-scientist' or to teach creation science, while failing to protect those who choose to teach other theories or who refuse to teach creation science.

The Act's primary purpose was to change the public school science curriculum to provide persuasive advantage to a particular religious doctrine that rejects the factual basis of evolution in its entirety. Thus, the Act is designed either to promote the theory of creation science that embodies a particular religious tenet or to prohibit the teaching of a scientific theory disfavored by certain religious sects. In either case, the Act violates the First Amendment"

and another:

"During the mid 1990's, creation science groups started to persuade school boards to give equal time to creation science."

So by this information it seems that creationism was taught intot he 80's and now creation groups are (or at least were) approaching individual school boards to have equal face time in classes. Regardless of opinion or legality I'm curios where this is happening and how recent.

[Paul the Human]

Here you go. I think this Wiki Page pretty much answers your question.

[Harden1313]

Looks like a soft reference to dates in the 90's but I swear I have read about school boards in Texas, Louisiana and others voting to include creationism in classes. I remember how they were basically saying that they were offering both evolution and creationism up as theories that weren't proofs and letting the students make up their own minds.

[Paul the Human]

They are pushing hard for it in Texas now. There are schools that want to, but it has yet to be passed. It was common practice until the 1860's, and began to come up again in the 1960's. Creationist groups have been trying to get into the public schools in a number of places since then, but as far as I can tell... they have not succeeded. At least not legally. Perhaps some places have voted to include Creationism in class, but it doesn't seem to have been officially included in any schools.