Was Hitler a Christian?

[Alex K]

One could call what Austrians speak "vaguely German" for shits and giggles, but it really is just regular German in the Bavarian dialect group (with the exception of the state Vorarlberg, which has an Alemannic German dialect). They have some different words they use, but I'd say the average language difference between the two countries - if speakers try to speak their respective varieties of standard German - is rather like between the US and England.

And even that is omitting all the different german dialects. Or would you say, you don't have any difficulties understanding someone speaking "Plattdeutsch", a Saxon or someone from Cologne? If they don't make any effort to be understood, that is.

Just as with Germany, there isn't one Austrian language or dialect. There are at least 9 variations, probably even more, given that there are even different dialects in different districts of Vienna.

Absolutely, the difference between very far apart dialects within each country is much larger than the difference between a German and an Austrian both trying to speak "standard German", or say, trying to be understood by the other.
But with one exception all the Austrian dialects are Bairisch, no? They are still different of course, but less radically so than say, my Pfälzisch is to Platt, which to my ears sounds like someone got confused whether they are Dutch or English.

But my point originally really was just that G-Cs claim about Hitler not being German is irrelevant for the argument [edit] precisely because Germany as one unique country hadn't really existed as such for long.

[abaris]

Yeah, the language is pretty much the same. I was referring more to the culture with that "vaguely" bit. The German Empire was a big place, and with big nations like that you tend to wind up with a bunch of little distinctive groups that usually still have things in common with the whole because of the influence of the ruling group.

The Gerrman empire only existed since 1871. For the longest time, since the middle ages, what's now called Germany, has been ruled by the fammily of Habsburg. Nominally, since their power always was limited and dependent on local nobility. That only changed after 1806, when the "Holy Roamn Empire" no longer existed and ultimately 1866, when Prussia under Bismarck moved to push out Habsburg from the German territories to create an own state. Which has been established in the wake of the Prussian French war of 1870/71. With more or less resistance being offered by the different German kings, dukes and counts ruling over the different territories. The Bavarian king has been virtually bought out by Bismarck, since Ludwig was broke and wanted to continue building his castles. But even after all of them agreed to form the German empire, it still stayed federal, with their local potentats untouched.

[abaris]

But with one exception all the Austrian dialects are Bairisch, no? They are still different of course, but less radically so than say, my Pfälzisch is to Platt, which to my ears sounds like someone got confused whether they are Dutch or English.

Nope, they aren't. In the east as well as the South there are slavonian elements woven into the language. We have sizeable minorities of Croats and Slovenians in Carinthia as well as Steiermark and Burgenland.

In Vienna, all the mixtures come together. The most vulgar expression for shut up, for example, "Kusch", comes from the French word "couchez", and can be tracked back to the Napoleonic occupation of 1809.

[LastPoet]

You're late to the game, LP. I think we sufficiently discussed this last year.

Missed it. Oh well, at least blind people won't bother with that. First world problems, I guess...

[Godscreated]

 Well I guess America has expanded tremendously, we can claim all English speaking countries according to your lame idea. Also Austria has self rule, that means they are a separate country. Also we do not allow anyone that to be president of this country that wasn't born hear.

These words are directly from Jesus' Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' 23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me,you workers of lawlessness.'

If I have to explain to you what this means and how it counters your argument completely then we have nothing else to say or I don't anyhow, it doesn't take a very intelligent person to understand the truth of those verses.

GC

They're verses from the wholly babble.  They can't prove anything.  They're from a work of fiction.  It has exactly as much importance as “For the time will soon come when Hobbits will shape the fortunes of all.”

 I see you have no respect for your fellow human beings, the correct wording is Holy Bible, but maybe I'm mistaken and you just can't spell. I would like to see you prove that the Bible has no validity in today's society.

GC

[Cyberman]

See how far you get taking your disobedient son to the city limits to stone him to death.

[abaris]

 I see you have no respect for your fellow human beings, the correct wording is Holy Bible, but maybe I'm mistaken and you just can't spell. I would like to see you prove that the Bible has no validity in today's society.

GC

Which part would you recommend as having validity in today's society? The turn the other cheek part, the come with a sword part, the stoning to death part for adultery? Maybe the love thy neighbour part? Maybe the not eat shellfish or wear cloth of two different fabrics part?

[drfuzzy]

They're verses from the wholly babble.  They can't prove anything.  They're from a work of fiction.  It has exactly as much importance as “For the time will soon come when Hobbits will shape the fortunes of all.”

 I see you have no respect for your fellow human beings, the correct wording is Holy Bible, but maybe I'm mistaken and you just can't spell. I would like to see you prove that the Bible has no validity in today's society.

GC

The wholly babble has plenty of validity to people who were brainwashed into believing that that ridiculous grouping of bronze-age fairy tales was actually written - or at least inspired - by their imaginary sky-daddy.  I was there once.  I memorized most of it.  Then I read it from the mindset that it was the work of men, and yeah . . . it's utter trash.  But you keep worshiping your book, if it makes you happy.

[Godscreated]

 Well I guess America has expanded tremendously, we can claim all English speaking countries according to your lame idea. Also Austria has self rule, that means they are a separate country. Also we do not allow anyone that to be president of this country that wasn't born hear.

These words are directly from Jesus' Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' 23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me,you workers of lawlessness.'

If I have to explain to you what this means and how it counters your argument completely then we have nothing else to say or I don't anyhow, it doesn't take a very intelligent person to understand the truth of those verses.

GC

Like Alex said, Hitler was growing up and coming to power in the fallout from WWI. Germany had been a pretty big empire and was in the  process of falling apart, and Austria was one of the countries that began to emerge from that (if memory serves, that is...it's been a while since I read the history). Many of those old Germanic countries have vaguely German language and culture because at one time they literally were Germany. Sure, they're sovereign nations now, but "German" was a much more loosey goosey term during the time we're talking about.

Austria was a sovereign nation then, doesn't matter if it was once part of a larger country loosely organized.

Besides, Hitler was still German by way of citizenship, which means he was German. What we do in America concerning  the presidency and his birth has virtually nothing to do with what was going on in Nazi Germany during WWII.

Hitler became a German citizen by being appointed to a position in Brunswick by the Nazi party, Hitler refused to become a citizen by standing in line like all others did. Hitler was an egomaniac from the start. Like everything else be bullied his way in.

I'm aware of that verse in Matthew, and it does not solve your problem. It essentially states that even if a person says they're a Christian and does the works of a Christian, they're not a "True Christian" unless they're "doing God's will."

It's not my problem, the problem belongs to non- believers like yourself. It says if a person pretends to be a Christian and claims to do work that wasn't God's work then they will wind up in hell. 

This leaves you with the exact same problem as before. No two Christians can agree on God's will, which is why you have thousands of denominations with millions of churches with billions of people all with wildly differing opinions on what God's will actually is, even though they're all using more or less the same book.

You need to prove that each denomination has a different view as to what it takes to be a Christian. The great majority believe in grace through acceptance of Christ into one's life.

This gets us no closer to a practical way to tell who is a True Christian and who isn't. Anytime the Christians disagree, they all point at each other and call each other false. Because we have no reliable, consistent way of determining what God's will is (and apparently neither do his followers), this passage in Matthew is pretty much useless to everyone but God himself, if indeed he did exist.

Some denominations do that true. You do not know what God's will is because you are not part of His family. God's ultimate will is made quite clear in the scriptures and then His will for each Christian is part of a personal relationship. People can say I'm not a Christian, but then all that really matters is that Jesus knows I'm his. Christians do not live a life as Hitler did, that's obvious to all who can see, believer and non-believer alike.

GC

[Godscreated]

 I see you have no respect for your fellow human beings, the correct wording is Holy Bible, but maybe I'm mistaken and you just can't spell. I would like to see you prove that the Bible has no validity in today's society.

GC

The wholly babble has plenty of validity to people who were brainwashed into believing that that ridiculous grouping of bronze-age fairy tales was actually written - or at least inspired - by their imaginary sky-daddy.  I was there once.  I memorized most of it.  Then I read it from the mindset that it was the work of men, and yeah . . . it's utter trash.  But you keep worshiping your book, if it makes you happy.

I don't worship the Bible, I worship God and you know squat about the Bible. All you care about is your hatred for God and His people. It's obvious what the Bible teaches and the reasonable part of society you don't hold with, you would rather try and run people down than hold any kind of honor for yourself or others.

GC