The backbreaker

[Nihilist Virus]

I don't need all of them. Just the one that says that a son may be put to death for the sins of his father.

Or have you forgotten the premise?

There is no such law, you yourself brought that evidence to this tread. You tried to counter that law with the incident of David and Bathsheba and I told you that God had forgiven David before David's son became sick, God didn't kill the child He didn't heal the child after it got sick, it was a punishment for David not the child. Like I said it was a punishment David would never forget and the child is now in heaven with God, this child was innocent of all wrong doing it was only a few weeks old. Your whole deal is proving the Bible is flawed and I doubt (but will hope) the things I show you are true and consistent. I'm not going to say that I can't explain all the Bible to you, I'm not finished learning what God will be showing me in His word, there are things I do not understand but I'm hungry for all I can learn. God has taught me much over the years, some through others, some just because I asked with determination to understand what I was having trouble with understanding, how certain things in the Bible could possibly match up with the rest, again I look forward to God's revelation to me for my personal understanding. He's shown me why I was confused and revealed what I needed to know to understand certain passages that seemed not to fit, some of these things took years. Patients is truly a virtue and my faith was strengthened into knowledge of God and who He is, that's why I patiently wait on Him for those things that still give me trouble. I now know there are answers that will make those things consistent with the rest of the Bible. You see I know the problem is not God's word, it's my lack of understanding. 

GC

There is no such law, you yourself brought that evidence to this tread.

Deuteronomy 24:16

Allow me to summarize the point again.

God had a covenant with the Jews. A part of it is laid out in Deuteronomy 24:16. In 2 Samuel 12 it is clear that God killed the son.

You tried to counter that law with the incident of David and Bathsheba and I told you that God had forgiven David before David's son became sick, God didn't kill the child He didn't heal the child after it got sick, it was a punishment for David not the child.

WRONG.

Nathan says in verse 14,

Howbeit, because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of Jehovah to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die.

If a prophet of God says the child will die, and it happens, it's clearly God's doing. Surely Nathan is not summoning demons or his own power to make this happen. He was told it would happen by God.

It seems that your argument is this:

1. David sinned
2. God decides he wants to punish David
3. God, knowing the future, sees that David's son was already going to die no matter what
4. God punished David by doing nothing and allowing events to unfold naturally

Seems kind of like a stupid argument, especially considering that this God had no problem with deliberately/purposefully/manually killing people left and right.

BTW, as it is written the infant fell ill and took a week to die, so not only did God kill an infant but he tortured it first.

Now the point is that God is clearly above the law he gave to the Jews. And I don't see any indication that he isn't above whatever the hell law you're talking about. And if God is above the law, then the death of Christ was entirely pointless.

[Angrboda]

You see I know the problem is not God's word, it's my lack of understanding. 

Stockholm syndrome. "No, it's not you, it's me."

[Godscreated]

You see I know the problem is not God's word, it's my lack of understanding. 

Stockholm syndrome.  "No, it's not you, it's me."

No, I realize what is true and what is false, maybe you should try it sometime.

GC

[dyresand]

Stockholm syndrome.  "No, it's not you, it's me."

No, I realize what is true and what is false, maybe you should try it sometime.

GC

Religion it's a friendly way of saying brainwashing the masses  I.E. another name for a cult. 
But that is what you believe to be true because the book say's  it true and people say it's true.

[Godscreated]

[Nihilist Virus]

You're wrong once again and at best you're trying to twist the words of God around to meet your predetermined argument. You should learn what the Bible says before trying to twist it into your words, God's word will not fail.

God's word will not fail?

2 Kings 8:26 versus 2 Chronicles 22:2.

Oh but you have to use the KJV or NKJV, because in the newer versions they artificially correct God's word.

God did not kill the child, as I said He allowed the child to die. God did strike the child ill and He did not heal the child,

Do you have any idea how moronic that sounds?

"Your Honor, I didn't kill my wife.  I just poisoned her soup and allowed her to die lolz."

this was physical punishment not spiritual punishment, David and his child are both now with the Lord God. The passage from Deut. is about spiritual death and since God had forgiven David, there was no punishment for the sin with Bathsheba concerning the child's death.

Deuteronomy 24:16 is about spiritual death.  Yeah I saw you say that before.  Uh, citation needed.  Because as far as I know, the Old Testament does not even mention souls or spirits other than Sololomon saying that the spirit of man goes into the ground, just the same as that of an animal.  Ecclesiastes 3:19.

Edit - there was the conjuring of Samuel's spirit. Forgot about that. Still though you have to provide evidence that the verse is describing a spiritual death and also you have to reconcile the conjuring of Samuel with Ecclesiastes 3:19.

No I'm not wrong, in verse 13 David tells Nathan he has sinned and Nathan tell David God has forgiven his sin, the sin is forgiven before the child becomes ill. Understand the sequence here, David's wives were given to another man because David took Uriah's wife and then murdered Uriah. David's son died because David dishonored God's name among the unrighteous.

The sin was forgiven because the son paid the price of death, in direct contradiction to Deuteronomy 24:16.

2. God didn't decide, it was God's justice in action, it was something that had to happen.
3. David couldn't see the future.
4. God punishes in whatever way He chooses.

OK, fair enough.

How could God being above the law make Christ's death pointless,

Because the point of Christ's death was that it was the only way to forgive sins...?  Duh...?

you need to understand that Jesus was born and lived as a man He had no powers while on earth.

Jesus had no powers while on earth?  WTF?  I must be the only person who is unable to walk on water, create fish and bread ex nihilo, heal the blind, leprous and paralyzed, and etcetera etcetera etcetera.

Satan couldn't say that Jesus was able to be tempted to sin, Satan personally temped Jesus and Jesus used the word of God to turn Satan aside.

OK... BTW who was there to write that down?  Or did Jesus strut back into town and brag about fasting for 40 days & resisting temptation?

The laws I speak of are given to all mankind are you to lazy to read and find them, they are in both the OT and NT.

If you aren't talking about the 613 laws of the Torah then you need to clarify WTF you are talking about.  I've been more than patient with you.  Now you're calling me lazy.  If you're saying the law is NOT what is commonly known as the law, then YOU need to clarify what you are talking about.

If you mean God is above the law because He can't sin then you are correct. God's nature is the law and God can't go against His nature so He can't sin.

As far as the law he made with the Jews, he clearly violated the shit out of it.

Or are you going on again about this law that is not the Torah even though you won't clarify WTF it is?

Surely by now you can see what I've been trying to show you, if not I don't know what else to say.

LOL

[Godscreated]

You're wrong once again and at best you're trying to twist the words of God around to meet your predetermined argument. You should learn what the Bible says before trying to twist it into your words, God's word will not fail.

God's word will not fail?

2 Kings 8:26 versus 2 Chronicles 22:2.

Oh but you have to use the KJV or NKJV, because in the newer versions they artificially correct God's word.

Just so you will know and not make the same mistake in the future The NKJV is one of the newest translations and for the KJ version it was written during a time they were not able to translate several Hebrew and Greek words, the newest translations have the advantage of understanding the meaning of many of those words. So you use whatever Bible version you want and I'll use the numerous ones I have including the KJ. By the way if you are looking for a Bible that is the closest to a literal translation try the NASV in a study Bible. No body has ever tried to correct the word of God it's perfect and the translator for most versions come from many different denominations. Now that you've had a little Bible history I'll address your the verses you posted.

2 Kings 8:26
2 Chronicles 22:2
The NIV one of my least favorite versions says the same thing about both verses, no differences.

God did not kill the child, as I said He allowed the child to die. God did strike the child ill and He did not heal the child,

Do you have any idea how moronic that sounds?

"Your Honor, I didn't kill my wife.  I just poisoned her soup and allowed her to die lolz."

Do you realize how ignorant you are about God and His rights. First off, I do not own my wife (you must think a man owns a woman after they're married), I can't take her life God's law and the law of this land both prohibit such an action.
God as creator of all people has the right to take the life He has given and in some instances He does, but most people die of accident or natural causes. If God had not allowed the life it would not have been, so even your life is in His hands. This said God takes what is His to start with when and if He decides to. I knew you would come back with this so I waited to address it only after you decided to show your ignorance of God, it's a learning moment as Drich would say.

this was physical punishment not spiritual punishment, David and his child are both now with the Lord God. The passage from Deut. is about spiritual death and since God had forgiven David, there was no punishment for the sin with Bathsheba concerning the child's death.

Deuteronomy 24:16 is about spiritual death.  Yeah I saw you say that before.  Uh, citation needed.  Because as far as I know, the Old Testament does not even mention souls or spirits other than Sololomon saying that the spirit of man goes into the ground, just the same as that of an animal.  Ecclesiastes 3:19.

Edit - there was the conjuring of Samuel's spirit.  Forgot about that.  Still though you have to provide evidence that the verse is describing a spiritual death and also you have to reconcile the conjuring of Samuel with Ecclesiastes 3:19.

No I'm not wrong, in verse 13 David tells Nathan he has sinned and Nathan tell David God has forgiven his sin, the sin is forgiven before the child becomes ill. Understand the sequence here, David's wives were given to another man because David took Uriah's wife and then murdered Uriah. David's son died because David dishonored God's name among the unrighteous.

The sin was forgiven because the son paid the price of death, in direct contradiction to Deuteronomy 24:16.

2. God didn't decide, it was God's justice in action, it was something that had to happen.
3. David couldn't see the future.
4. God punishes in whatever way He chooses.

OK, fair enough.

How could God being above the law make Christ's death pointless,

Because the point of Christ's death was that it was the only way to forgive sins...?  Duh...?

you need to understand that Jesus was born and lived as a man He had no powers while on earth.

Jesus had no powers while on earth?  WTF?  I must be the only person who is unable to walk on water, create fish and bread ex nihilo, heal the blind, leprous and paralyzed, and etcetera etcetera etcetera.

Satan couldn't say that Jesus was able to be tempted to sin, Satan personally temped Jesus and Jesus used the word of God to turn Satan aside.

OK... BTW who was there to write that down?  Or did Jesus strut back into town and brag about fasting for 40 days & resisting temptation?

The laws I speak of are given to all mankind are you to lazy to read and find them, they are in both the OT and NT.

If you aren't talking about the 613 laws of the Torah then you need to clarify WTF you are talking about.  I've been more than patient with you.  Now you're calling me lazy.  If you're saying the law is NOT what is commonly known as the law, then YOU need to clarify what you are talking about.

If you mean God is above the law because He can't sin then you are correct. God's nature is the law and God can't go against His nature so He can't sin.

As far as the law he made with the Jews, he clearly violated the shit out of it.

Or are you going on again about this law that is not the Torah even though you won't clarify WTF it is?

Surely by now you can see what I've been trying to show you, if not I don't know what else to say.

LOL

[Godscreated]

I need an administrators help, I accidently posted a reply that I did not get finished, the reply was to 'NV'. So I went to edit the reply and ran over the time allowed, the reply is quite lengthy and I do not want to rewrite the whole thing and I can't save it or I would and then repost it. Could someone post the reply I will leave the edit page open so nothing will be deleted. Thanks.

GC

[Godscreated]

You're wrong once again and at best you're trying to twist the words of God around to meet your predetermined argument. You should learn what the Bible says before trying to twist it into your words, God's word will not fail.

God's word will not fail?

2 Kings 8:26 versus 2 Chronicles 22:2.

Oh but you have to use the KJV or NKJV, because in the newer versions they artificially correct God's word.

Just so you will know and not make the same mistake in the future, the NKJV is one of the newest translations and as for the KJV it was translated during a time where they were not able to translate several of the Greek and Hebrew words. The newer translations have the advantage our understanding of many of the words they couldn't translate and even some of those they did translate we have learned they have more meanings and some better than those used in the KJV. So you use the translations you want and I'll use the numerous ones I have including the KJV. By the way if you are looking for a Bible that is the closest to a literal translation try the NASV in a study Bible. Now that you have had a little Bible history I'll address your verses you posted.
2 Kings 8:26
2 Chronicles 22:2
The Niv one of my least favorite versions says the same thing about both versions, no difference. 

God did not kill the child, as I said He allowed the child to die. God did strike the child ill and He did not heal the child,

Do you have any idea how moronic that sounds?

"Your Honor, I didn't kill my wife.  I just poisoned her soup and allowed her to die lolz."

Do you realize how ignorant you are about God and His rights. First off, I do not own my wife (you must think a man owns a woman after they are married), I can't take her life, God's law and the law of the land both prohibit such an action.
God as creator of all people has the right to take the life He has given and in some instances He does, but most people die of accidents or natural causes. if God had not allowed a life it would not have been, so even your life is in His hands. This said, god takes what is His to start with when He decides to. I knew you would come back with this so I waited to address it only after you decided to show your ignorance of God, it's a learning moment as Drich would say.

this was physical punishment not spiritual punishment, David and his child are both now with the Lord God. The passage from Deut. is about spiritual death and since God had forgiven David, there was no punishment for the sin with Bathsheba concerning the child's death.

Deuteronomy 24:16 is about spiritual death.  Yeah I saw you say that before.  Uh, citation needed.  Because as far as I know, the Old Testament does not even mention souls or spirits other than Sololomon saying that the spirit of man goes into the ground, just the same as that of an animal.  Ecclesiastes 3:19.

Edit - there was the conjuring of Samuel's spirit.  Forgot about that.  Still though you have to provide evidence that the verse is describing a spiritual death and also you have to reconcile the conjuring of Samuel with Ecclesiastes 3:19.

No I'm not wrong, in verse 13 David tells Nathan he has sinned and Nathan tell David God has forgiven his sin, the sin is forgiven before the child becomes ill. Understand the sequence here, David's wives were given to another man because David took Uriah's wife and then murdered Uriah. David's son died because David dishonored God's name among the unrighteous.

The sin was forgiven because the son paid the price of death, in direct contradiction to Deuteronomy 24:16.

2. God didn't decide, it was God's justice in action, it was something that had to happen.
3. David couldn't see the future.
4. God punishes in whatever way He chooses.

OK, fair enough.

How could God being above the law make Christ's death pointless,

Because the point of Christ's death was that it was the only way to forgive sins...?  Duh...?

you need to understand that Jesus was born and lived as a man He had no powers while on earth.

Jesus had no powers while on earth?  WTF?  I must be the only person who is unable to walk on water, create fish and bread ex nihilo, heal the blind, leprous and paralyzed, and etcetera etcetera etcetera.

Satan couldn't say that Jesus was able to be tempted to sin, Satan personally temped Jesus and Jesus used the word of God to turn Satan aside.

OK... BTW who was there to write that down?  Or did Jesus strut back into town and brag about fasting for 40 days & resisting temptation?

The laws I speak of are given to all mankind are you to lazy to read and find them, they are in both the OT and NT.

If you aren't talking about the 613 laws of the Torah then you need to clarify WTF you are talking about.  I've been more than patient with you.  Now you're calling me lazy.  If you're saying the law is NOT what is commonly known as the law, then YOU need to clarify what you are talking about.

If you mean God is above the law because He can't sin then you are correct. God's nature is the law and God can't go against His nature so He can't sin.

As far as the law he made with the Jews, he clearly violated the shit out of it.

Or are you going on again about this law that is not the Torah even though you won't clarify WTF it is?

Surely by now you can see what I've been trying to show you, if not I don't know what else to say.

LOL[/quote]

[Godscreated]