Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: June 25, 2022, 8:01 pm

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Little children who died without Baptism go to eternal Hell?!
#1
Little children who died without Baptism go to eternal Hell?!
This doctrine was plainly taught in the early pre-medieval Christian Church:

Quote:“If anyone says that, because the Lord said ‘In My Father’s house are many mansions,’ it might be understood that in the Kingdom of Heaven there will be some middle place, or some place anywhere, where the blessed infants live who departed from this life without Baptism, without which they cannot enter into the Kingdom of Heaven which is life eternal: Let him be anathema. For when the Lord says ‘Unless one be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he shall not enter into the Kingdom of God,’ what Catholic will doubt that one who has not deserved to be a co-heir with Christ will be a partner of the Devil?” (Pope Zosimus at the Council of Carthage XVI, Canon 3, Denzinger , 30th edition, p.45, note 2).

Of course, Holy "Mother" Catholic Church has changed its/her tune on this one, but if it is true "now" that everyone who is conceived and born will transition from a state of "original sin" to a state of "sanctifying grace," why bother converting at all, or trying to convert anyone else?  If all infants who die in infancy are, in fact, saved, when does the "transition" come for those of them (us) who survive infancy that they (we) need to "convert" back to a state of sanctifying grace?  Or, does any of this still make sense to anyone?
And without delay Peter went quickly out of the synagogue (assembly) and went unto the house of Marcellus, where Simon lodged: and much people followed him...And Peter turned unto the people that followed him and said: Ye shall now see a great and marvellous wonder. And Peter seeing a great dog bound with a strong chain, went to him and loosed him, and when he was loosed the dog received a man's voice and said unto Peter: What dost thou bid me to do, thou servant of the unspeakable and living God? Peter said unto him: Go in and say unto Simon in the midst of his company: Peter saith unto thee, Come forth abroad, for thy sake am I come to Rome, thou wicked one and deceiver of simple souls. And immediately the dog ran and entered in, and rushed into the midst of them that were with Simon, and lifted up his forefeet and in a loud voice said: Thou Simon, Peter the servant of Christ who standeth at the door saith unto thee: Come forth abroad, for thy sake am I come to Rome, thou most wicked one and deceiver of simple souls. And when Simon heard it, and beheld the incredible sight, he lost the words wherewith he was deceiving them that stood by, and all of them were amazed. (The Acts of Peter, 9)
Reply
#2
RE: Little children who died without Baptism go to eternal Hell?!
Of course, it's only right .. somehow? [So no, it makes no sense to me.]
Reply
#3
RE: Little children who died without Baptism go to eternal Hell?!
That's why they invented purgatory later on. The original version wasn't that popular. On the same lines as the Mass Effect 3 ending, which was revised after the initial shitstorm.
[Image: Bumper+Sticker+-+Asheville+-+Praise+Dog3.JPG]
Reply
#4
RE: Little children who died without Baptism go to eternal Hell?!
It's kind of hard to say someone is an all loving god, while also saying he lets babies burn forever.
Poe's Law: "Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is impossible to create a parody of Fundamentalism that SOMEONE won't mistake for the real thing."

10 Christ-like figures that predate Jesus. Link shortened to Chris ate Jesus for some reason...
http://listverse.com/2009/04/13/10-chris...ate-jesus/

Good video to watch, if you want to know how common the Jesus story really is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88GTUXvp-50

A list of biblical contradictions from the infallible word of Yahweh.
http://infidels.org/library/modern/jim_m...tions.html

Reply
#5
RE: Little children who died without Baptism go to eternal Hell?!
Well, what was the lower age limit for the census, like 30 days old or something ?

If a baby didn't exist as a human being person for reasons of the census, would God/Satan really waste the BTUs to barbecue them for ETERNITY if they died ?
 The granting of a pardon is an imputation of guilt, and the acceptance a confession of it. 




Reply
#6
RE: Little children who died without Baptism go to eternal Hell?!
(February 27, 2016 at 10:17 am)Jehanne Wrote: This doctrine was plainly taught in the early pre-medieval Christian Church:

Quote:“If anyone says that, because the Lord said ‘In My Father’s house are many mansions,’ it might be understood that in the Kingdom of Heaven there will be some middle place, or some place anywhere, where the blessed infants live who departed from this life without Baptism, without which they cannot enter into the Kingdom of Heaven which is life eternal: Let him be anathema. For when the Lord says ‘Unless one be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he shall not enter into the Kingdom of God,’ what Catholic will doubt that one who has not deserved to be a co-heir with Christ will be a partner of the Devil?” (Pope Zosimus at the Council of Carthage XVI, Canon 3, Denzinger , 30th edition, p.45, note 2).

Of course, Holy "Mother" Catholic Church has changed its/her tune on this one, but if it is true "now" that everyone who is conceived and born will transition from a state of "original sin" to a state of "sanctifying grace," why bother converting at all, or trying to convert anyone else?  If all infants who die in infancy are, in fact, saved, when does the "transition" come for those of them (us) who survive infancy that they (we) need to "convert" back to a state of sanctifying grace?  Or, does any of this still make sense to anyone?

Well it's nice to see the 'church' catch back up with the actual bible once in a while. In the bible's version it is Christ who decides who is saved and who is not, he does this by a personal examination of one's life. If and when you could comprehend sin and how much of the gospel you were exposed to verse how you responded to said gospel. the parable of the talents sums all of this up. "We are only responsible for what God has given us." Meaning it is not a church or religious movement's clauses, and rituals that saves you, but Christ's own personal judgement.
Reply
#7
RE: Little children who died without Baptism go to eternal Hell?!
Quote: Of course, Holy "Mother" Catholic Church has changed its/her tune on this one

It was poor marketing strategy in this age.

And fuck the bible, drippy.
Reply
#8
RE: Little children who died without Baptism go to eternal Hell?!
Maybe if a little unbaptized baby had it's head dashed against a stone by a happy soldier God would call that good enough ?
 The granting of a pardon is an imputation of guilt, and the acceptance a confession of it. 




Reply
#9
RE: Little children who died without Baptism go to eternal Hell?!
(February 27, 2016 at 11:38 am)Drich Wrote:
(February 27, 2016 at 10:17 am)Jehanne Wrote: This doctrine was plainly taught in the early pre-medieval Christian Church:


Of course, Holy "Mother" Catholic Church has changed its/her tune on this one, but if it is true "now" that everyone who is conceived and born will transition from a state of "original sin" to a state of "sanctifying grace," why bother converting at all, or trying to convert anyone else?  If all infants who die in infancy are, in fact, saved, when does the "transition" come for those of them (us) who survive infancy that they (we) need to "convert" back to a state of sanctifying grace?  Or, does any of this still make sense to anyone?

Well it's nice to see the 'church' catch back up with the actual bible once in a while. In the bible's version it is Christ who decides who is saved and who is not, he does this by a personal examination of one's life. If and when you could comprehend sin and how much of the gospel you were exposed to verse how you responded to said gospel. the parable of the talents sums all of this up. "We are only responsible for what God has given us." Meaning it is not a church or religious movement's clauses, and rituals that saves you, but Christ's own personal judgement.

So, what happens to kiddos who die without sacramental Baptism, then?
And without delay Peter went quickly out of the synagogue (assembly) and went unto the house of Marcellus, where Simon lodged: and much people followed him...And Peter turned unto the people that followed him and said: Ye shall now see a great and marvellous wonder. And Peter seeing a great dog bound with a strong chain, went to him and loosed him, and when he was loosed the dog received a man's voice and said unto Peter: What dost thou bid me to do, thou servant of the unspeakable and living God? Peter said unto him: Go in and say unto Simon in the midst of his company: Peter saith unto thee, Come forth abroad, for thy sake am I come to Rome, thou wicked one and deceiver of simple souls. And immediately the dog ran and entered in, and rushed into the midst of them that were with Simon, and lifted up his forefeet and in a loud voice said: Thou Simon, Peter the servant of Christ who standeth at the door saith unto thee: Come forth abroad, for thy sake am I come to Rome, thou most wicked one and deceiver of simple souls. And when Simon heard it, and beheld the incredible sight, he lost the words wherewith he was deceiving them that stood by, and all of them were amazed. (The Acts of Peter, 9)
Reply
#10
RE: Little children who died without Baptism go to eternal Hell?!
Same as the ones who are;

molested by a priest
 The granting of a pardon is an imputation of guilt, and the acceptance a confession of it. 




Reply



Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Without citing the bible, what marks the bible as the one book with God's message? Whateverist 143 35692 March 31, 2022 at 7:05 am
Last Post: Gwaithmir
  Religious groups in UK failing children over sex abuse zebo-the-fat 1 377 September 2, 2021 at 6:29 pm
Last Post: Rev. Rye
  I'm a Universalist - Can anyone convince me of 'Eternal Damnationism'? The Kreisel 16 582 February 26, 2021 at 3:02 am
Last Post: beepete
  [Serious] What God's justification for eternal torment? SuicideCommando01 279 8696 December 18, 2020 at 4:40 pm
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  Church of England 'failed to protect children from sexual abusers' zebo-the-fat 25 902 October 8, 2020 at 7:11 pm
Last Post: no one
  Did Yahweh do us a favor by denying us eternal life? Greatest I am 30 1087 July 26, 2020 at 3:03 pm
Last Post: Greatest I am
  Telling children that they are going to hell is abusive? Fake Messiah 104 5149 February 9, 2020 at 2:46 am
Last Post: Fake Messiah
  Catholic priests jailed for abusing deaf children zebo-the-fat 14 1408 November 26, 2019 at 8:12 am
Last Post: Gawdzilla Sama
  What do moderates think Jesus died for? Der/die AtheistIn 119 5675 January 16, 2019 at 2:38 pm
Last Post: Acrobat
  Jesus suffering vs eternal suffering of temporary sinners purplepurpose 72 5986 November 19, 2018 at 4:55 pm
Last Post: The Grand Nudger



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)