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RE: What is to be done about religion?
March 12, 2016 at 2:20 pm
(March 12, 2016 at 12:24 pm)robvalue Wrote: It sounds like my attitude is actually the same as some of you guys who voted lower on the intensity scale.
Does anyone actually go around getting in people's faces about this stuff, unprovoked? If they do, they should stop it right now.
I suppose "speak up whenever possible" is a bit strong. I should change that to "whenever appropriate".
Also, I'm all for improving religion as well. I'll take watered-down crap over fundamentalism any day.
Ha ha...I feel "speak up, when I wants to" works. 
I don't necessarily find fault with atheists who are more intense and/or confrontational if that's their thing. A good deal of theists feel completely comfortable in approaching people and start yammering on about their faith and what everybody else needs. Why not atheists?
As long as people know when to back the hell off, of course.
Harassment is harassment.
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RE: What is to be done about religion?
March 12, 2016 at 2:26 pm
(March 12, 2016 at 2:16 pm)robvalue Wrote: I don't follow.
I wasn't claiming that speaking out against things will solve all the problems. Just that it will help, over time, to hopefully sway attitudes. Such adjustments can take many generations.
I was contrasting this with bullying individuals into compliance, which doesn't help at all. We don't live in isolation. Within the context of living in a society, different religions with different morality will inevitably lead to conflict. It's the nature of the beast. Now, if you can come up with "religions without a moral code", then you have a chance for people of different religious beliefs to live side by side peacefully. But that's not the case. Case in point: those who believe that abortion is murder, which is according to their religious beliefs, will not let those who believe in free abortion to get away with it.
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RE: What is to be done about religion?
March 12, 2016 at 4:24 pm
OK. I don't understand how that has anything to do with what I was saying.
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RE: What is to be done about religion?
March 12, 2016 at 5:41 pm
(March 12, 2016 at 4:24 pm)robvalue Wrote: OK. I don't understand how that has anything to do with what I was saying.
I was referring to that part of your post: "This can be done without grabbing one hapless theist minding his own business and bellowing in his face. It also presents a much better image of atheists when they are being reasonable and not bullying people." And I said that was unrealistic. Without repeating myself, when you have people who believe in different sets of morality, violence (bullying) is going to happen, like it or not.
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RE: What is to be done about religion?
March 12, 2016 at 5:47 pm
Live and let live, so long as they don't enact their faith into laws. At that point, push back, and vigorously.
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RE: What is to be done about religion?
March 12, 2016 at 11:47 pm
I actually had this problem with not allowing people to have their own point of view.
Not just about religion. Could be anything.
And, like Bowie said, I turned to face myself but I couldn't catch a glimpse....til no-one wanted to hang out with me anymore.
I couldn't figure out why for ages cause I'm like really funny, super smart, good looking (zoo lander voice), passionate, etc.
So anyway, at the moment I'm trying to make a change.
It's just for me, I don't mind what everyone else here does. :-)
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RE: What is to be done about religion?
March 13, 2016 at 12:10 am
(March 12, 2016 at 11:47 pm)Little lunch Wrote: I actually had this problem with not allowing people to have their own point of view.
Not just about religion. Could be anything.
And, like Bowie said, I turned to face myself but I couldn't catch a glimpse....til no-one wanted to hang out with me anymore.
I couldn't figure out why for ages cause I'm like really funny, super smart, good looking (zoo lander voice), passionate, etc.
So anyway, at the moment I'm trying to make a change.
It's just for me, I don't mind what everyone else here does. :-)
Listening is one of the most vital skills we can cultivate.
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RE: What is to be done about religion?
March 13, 2016 at 2:08 am
One of my brothers is quite unlike me (at least he was, we don't talk anymore). He couldn't bear people disagreeing with him. He would start arguments with people repeatedly.
It was generally the case that I agreed that the other person was wrong, but I didn't agree with my brother's methods.
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RE: What is to be done about religion?
March 13, 2016 at 5:09 am
(March 13, 2016 at 12:10 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Listening is one of the most vital skills we can cultivate.
Hmm? I'm sorry...What were you saying? 
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RE: What is to be done about religion?
March 13, 2016 at 5:19 am
IRL I'm a 3 provided I'm offered the same courtesy. When not, I'm more of a 4 - and as Thump says I make change in the coin tendered. I generally avoid religious and political discussion. Life's too short.
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