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RE: Jewish Geneology: A Fraud?
April 11, 2016 at 12:03 pm
(This post was last modified: April 11, 2016 at 12:36 pm by TheRocketSurgeon.)
A Christian told me: if you were saved you cant lose your salvation. you're sealed with the Holy Ghost
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.
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RE: Jewish Geneology: A Fraud?
April 11, 2016 at 5:27 pm
Oh, and one more thing. It's hilarious to me that you attack Richard Carrier, with a legitimate PhD from a top-level university, who (while they may not agree with him and roundly criticize some of his conclusions, in theological academic circles) is at least respected in his field.
Your guy is badly plagiarizing the ideas of legitimate researchers like Wood, who unfortunately postulated an alternate timeline SO BAD that it requires throwing out the names of all the Egyptians named in the stories (since we know when they ruled) and would place several of the other named places as existing centuries before they were founded.
If you claimed (for instance) that you were placing the early Mormons in Independence, Missouri, in the year 1800, I'd know you were full of shit because I know that it was founded in 1827. If you placed them there in 1600, which is the approximate gap of time proposed by your documentary, I'd know you were not only full of shit but had NO IDEA what you were talking about.
That is the state of your documentary's claims, and that is why legitimate Christian scholars scoff at the findings, and point out the inconsistencies I mention, above.
A Christian told me: if you were saved you cant lose your salvation. you're sealed with the Holy Ghost
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.
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RE: Jewish Geneology: A Fraud?
April 11, 2016 at 6:28 pm
(April 10, 2016 at 11:17 am)Rhondazvous Wrote: I've heard it said that Judaism did not exist until after the common era. I haven't found enough evidence to give credulity to this assertion, but if anyone here has evidence, please share it.
That could be the modern form of judaism where all jews are subject to the religious laws. Prior to the various revolts against Rome, the only jews fully subject to temple law were the priesthood and the nobility (both groups being virtually synonymous).
Judaism as a coherent religious grouping is probably no older than the return from Babylonian captivity (so c550BCE). It is at this period where you'll find the strongest evidence for the cult of yhwh becoming a monotheistic cult, rather than being part of a polytheistic or a henotheistic one. And most of the ideas on monotheism were probably developed from contact with Persian zoroastrians.
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RE: Jewish Geneology: A Fraud?
April 11, 2016 at 8:12 pm
(April 11, 2016 at 6:28 pm)Constable Dorfl Wrote: (April 10, 2016 at 11:17 am)Rhondazvous Wrote: I've heard it said that Judaism did not exist until after the common era. I haven't found enough evidence to give credulity to this assertion, but if anyone here has evidence, please share it.
That could be the modern form of judaism where all jews are subject to the religious laws. Prior to the various revolts against Rome, the only jews fully subject to temple law were the priesthood and the nobility (both groups being virtually synonymous).
Judaism as a coherent religious grouping is probably no older than the return from Babylonian captivity (so c550BCE). It is at this period where you'll find the strongest evidence for the cult of yhwh becoming a monotheistic cult, rather than being part of a polytheistic or a henotheistic one. And most of the ideas on monotheism were probably developed from contact with Persian zoroastrians.
If it goes back to the Babylonian captivity, then it would be interesting to follow the development and divergence of apocalyptic Judaism vis a vis rabbinical Judaism.
The god who allows children to be raped out of respect for the free will choice of the rapist, but punishes gay men for engaging in mutually consensual sex couldn't possibly be responsible for an intelligently designed universe.
I may defend your right to free speech, but i won't help you pass out flyers.
Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.
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RE: Jewish Geneology: A Fraud?
April 11, 2016 at 11:17 pm
Hey, Abs.
Quite by accident I found this. Nice summary of the book.
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RE: Jewish Geneology: A Fraud?
April 12, 2016 at 12:17 am
(April 11, 2016 at 2:36 am)Minimalist Wrote: Rabbinic judaism, which is what we have now, dates from the destruction of the temple in 70. Prior to that it was a silly cult based on animal sacrifice.
That's not really true. Judaism was always based on the Pentateuch. What was before that was several different religious mythologies that assimilated their beliefs.
And in the ancient world animal sacrifice was not "silly". The Romans, for example, didn't care what deity you sacrificed your animals to so long as you participated in what was seen as a central part of Roman society. It was like any other social norm you can think of today. For example, punishment for adultery was seen as social norm. Now how different ancient cultures dealt with it varied greatly, but it was a norm shared across several different ancient cultures. Also in the Roman Empire it was considered impolite and anti-social to shun the gods of others: you were expected to acknowledge other people's deities, and they would acknowledge yours. This was one thing that led the Jews into trouble (and the Christians in the second and third centuries).
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RE: Jewish Geneology: A Fraud?
April 12, 2016 at 1:17 am
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RE: Jewish Geneology: A Fraud?
April 12, 2016 at 1:18 am
Oh, and thinking that killing an animal saved your ass is not only silly now...it was pretty silly then, too.
What can you expect from primitive assholes?
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RE: Jewish Geneology: A Fraud?
April 12, 2016 at 3:48 am
(This post was last modified: April 12, 2016 at 3:49 am by Aractus.)
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RE: Jewish Geneology: A Fraud?
April 12, 2016 at 12:41 pm
A Christian told me: if you were saved you cant lose your salvation. you're sealed with the Holy Ghost
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.
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