Transexuals

[robvalue]

I seem to see a lot of this:

"I don't care what the experts say. I don't care what brain scans say. I don't care what all the objective evidence points to. I find it weird, and there's something wrong with them. So I should get to order them around."

How about no. As for the OP, stopping them making laws? How would that even work? Compulsory genital examination? Fucking hell, this whole thread is so absurd.

I fully admit, about a year ago, I really didn't understand all of this. I didn't judge anyone, or think anything should change; I just found it all confusing. I thought, how can this be? How can people feel like this? I'm embarressed to admit that I didn't think it was scientific. It would never have affected my actions though. Even if it wasn't scientific, it didn't matter to me. I had experience of a trans person, I shared a class with one, and we got on just fine. I didn't need to understand it all to be a decent person to them. Even if it was simply choices and nothing more, so what?

I didn't, however, presume to know enough about it to go around persecuting people. I owned my ignorance, so to speak. Then due to a series of events where this issue actually became relevant to actions I might take, I educated myself. Now I see how completely stupid and uninformed I was. It's easier than ever to educate yourself. If you're not sure, ask for help. But don't just look for any internet article which appears to support what you already believe.

[I_am_not_mafia]

When you grow up, I'll be glad to discuss what I said. Until then, go fuck yourself, Evie, you dumb cunt.

Well you did bring it on yourself by saying that you don't know anything about the subject and then proceed to opinionate and denigrate a minority. And you don't expect people to react?

[SteelCurtain]

You see, Mathilda, for some, free speech means I get to say whatever I want but the rest of you get to shut the fuck up, because free speech.

[I_am_not_mafia]

BrokenQuil is just a racist in denial.

Personally the impression I get is that BrokenQuill is insecure in her identity as an individual. I see it happen in many different fringe communities. The more fringe they are the more conformist they can be, particularly with the members who assume the stereotype as an identity.

[Jackalope]

You see, Mathilda, for some, free speech means I get to say whatever I want but the rest of you get to shut the fuck up, because free speech.

You're oppressing me again.

[SteelCurtain]

You scuffed my shoe as I trod upon you. Expect a civil suit, good sir.

[I_am_not_mafia]

I clearly caveated my claim about it not being natural in such a way that it might have warranted asking for further clarification prior to jumping to conclusions, as he did. I simply meant it's not found in other animals(as far as I know).

How would you recognise it in animals? Yet here you are saying that it is not natural, which shows that you have made the judgement that it does not exist in animals. Yet there is no reason why it cannot. We know that homosexuality exists in animals for example. Both homosexuality and transsexuality are about how the brain has developed, for whatever reason. There is nothing to suggest that transsexuality is a special case.

[I_am_not_mafia]

If you say transgenderism is "unnatural" of course I'm going to take the piss out of you.

Because what does 'unnatural' even mean in this context? That it was produced artificially using a series of lab experiments, like some kind of Marvel comic superhero?

The very word unnatural is pejorative and has historically been used to describe homosexuality. In both cases it is not based in reality or science.

[I_am_not_mafia]

For the naturalism argument: How would you even know if Animals can or cannot be trans?  Also even if it's not a characteristic other animals share, it doesn't mean that it's not natural.  And there are some animals that can change gender.

Exactly. And with the rise of industrial oestrogens, there is an increase of gender non-conformity in fish for example.

http://www.treehugger.com/clean-water/co...-fish.html

[I_am_not_mafia]

I think I've said enough on the topic, can't see any new arguments. I'll repeat myself, briefly. If you're a man who thinks he's a woman you're mentally ill. If you're a man who wants to become a woman(to whatever relevant degree), go ahead, though I advise you to take great consideration before doing so. Just don't blame me for being weirded out about it, which I can pretty much guarantee that I will.

No one's blaming you for being weirded out. People are blaming you for forming strong opinions and using pejorative, dehumanising phrases even though you admit that you don't know anything about the subject or personally care.

That's pretty much the modus operandi of bigots.