Transexuals

[The Grand Nudger]

-and that, boys and girls, is why transexuals should go to the bathroom of the conservative right's choosing..or, wait......no?

[Neo-Scholastic]

Language is a means of expressing oneself.

More importantly it is the means by which we communicate with each other. And that requires a common knowledge of the symbols, what they signify, and how they convey meaning.

[Faith No More]

Of course language is going to be muddied and incomplete when you try to introduce new concepts and understanding into the culture. That's the nature of progress.

This whole discussion about a lack of clearly defined terms, however, is just a red herring to distract from the fact that there is mounting neurological evidence that says that gender isn't simply defined by what is or isn't dangling between the legs.

[TheRocketSurgeon]

I'm going to stop here (without quoting, sorry... I just don't want to scroll back to find it) and address what Chad said about identifying people, and that we wouldn't describe a mugger by their self-identity.

That's an astounding red herring!

If I knew a person, was aware of their personal attributes, and was trying to tell someone else about that person, then you bet your ass I'd include "self-identified" identities. For instance, Chad, I'd tell people you're my Christian friend, including that with other elements of your description that you may have chosen for yourself-- like, if you prefer to go by Chad instead of the long-form, Chadwick. (Rarely used anymore, but not the point.) It means that, whether or not biology works the way you seem to think it does, and they're "just choosing" to say they're the opposite gender, it's irrelevant to whether or not we should grant them the basic decency and respect of acknowledging them as they wish to be called.

However, that's not really an issue, since (as others have pointed out to you), we've come to recognize some things in the past couple of decades which were misunderstood or not at all understood, previously. Among those things we've discovered are the epigenetic and developmental factors that lead to physical and neurological development, and which may produce shades of grey we simply did not recognize before, as a society. As such, new terms must be invented to describe the phenomena.

I think it may help you (and I don't mean that in a disparaging way) to read an article by a pastor, covering his own path of discovering the facts about this situation, and doing a surprisingly good job of "getting it right". I also recommend everyone else read it-- I was shocked to see a Baptist preacher preferring to learn something over sticking with his "well that's just what I was brought up to believe!" prejudices.

https://baptistnews.com/2016/02/17/the-f...oom-bills/

[TheRocketSurgeon]

Language is a means of expressing oneself.

More importantly it is the means by which we communicate with each other. And that requires a common knowledge of the symbols, what they signify, and how they convey meaning.

I'm just quoting you here, since I meant to quote something you said earlier, but didn't feel like going back to get it... and still don't.

Yet I feel I'd be remiss if I didn't "notify" you that I had replied to you, at this level, rather than just expecting you to stumble across the thread again.

Sorry! I'm feeling lazy after a long day.

[vorlon13]

I guess I should let primary cat out of the downstairs bathroom, go in and have a session where I explore my sexuality by tactile stimulation while imagining Senator Jesse Helms (god rest his soul) is peering in thru the keyhole.

[The Grand Nudger]

As long as you do it in the bathroom labeled "men", have at it.

[Aroura]

I'm going to stop here (without quoting, sorry... I just don't want to scroll back to find it) and address what Chad said about identifying people, and that we wouldn't describe a mugger by their self-identity.

That's an astounding red herring!

If I knew a person, was aware of their personal attributes, and was trying to tell someone else about that person, then you bet your ass I'd include "self-identified" identities. For instance, Chad, I'd tell people you're my Christian friend, including that with other elements of your description that you may have chosen for yourself-- like, if you prefer to go by Chad instead of the long-form, Chadwick. (Rarely used anymore, but not the point.) It means that, whether or not biology works the way you seem to think it does, and they're "just choosing" to say they're the opposite gender, it's irrelevant to whether or not we should grant them the basic decency and respect of acknowledging them as they wish to be called.

However, that's not really an issue, since (as others have pointed out to you), we've come to recognize some things in the past couple of decades which were misunderstood or not at all understood, previously. Among those things we've discovered are the epigenetic and developmental factors that lead to physical and neurological development, and which may produce shades of grey we simply did not recognize before, as a society. As such, new terms must be invented to describe the phenomena.

I think it may help you (and I don't mean that in a disparaging way) to read an article by a pastor, covering his own path of discovering the facts about this situation, and doing a surprisingly good job of "getting it right". I also recommend everyone else read it-- I was shocked to see a Baptist preacher preferring to learn something over sticking with his "well that's just what I was brought up to believe!" prejudices.

https://baptistnews.com/2016/02/17/the-f...oom-bills/

This reply needs more kudos. And a bump.

[I_am_not_mafia]

When people say that they are philosophising by thinking about metaphysical and abstract ideas that have no basis in reality then I see it as something akin to a brain exercise like Sudoku. Utterly pointless but harmless and at least they're not letting their brains go to waste.

When people use that same pseudo intellectualism to actively maintain their bigotry then I have to admit to becoming somewhat peeved.

Contrived and irrelevant Word Salad used to post-rationalise denigration of one of the most vulnerable demographic:

At one time sex and gender were synonyms for an objective biological feature. Then at the insistence of critical theory proponents, with whom I normally disagree, the meaning of gender was shifted to refer to the subjective social constructs associated with biological sex. This move was not problematic since it allowed people to discuss the subjective associations of otherwise asexual things with traditional notions of masculinity or femininity. For example, how did the color pink came to be associated with femininity? In other words, the shift added clarity. The shift in meaning you are asking society to embrace not only reduces clarity of expression, it undermines any distinction between objective reality and subjective experience. For example, the phrase you used, "allowing trans people to be themselves," is ontologically ambiguous. It does not clarify if  "be themselves" refers to something they believe about themselves or their objective identifying features. If you were mugged, you would not identify your attacker by recounting anything about how the mugger feels about him or herself.

If a specific individual in private conversation wishes to be referred to in specific manner, like using only their last name, the pronoun of their choice or title, I am happy to oblige upon being informed of their preference. Until then I will use the most common conventions. I cannot read minds and neither can you. Your insistence that I speak according to your ideological preferences as part of a general conversation is nothing short of totalitarian.

BTW, the post you quoted does not contain a single personal pronoun.

Evidence obtained via the scientific method based on observations of reality:

As already posted on this thread, there is plenty of evidence for the difference in male and female brains that has been in the literature for the last few decades and they also show that transsexuals have the brain of the gender that they identify as. I've even read some of them myself.



http://aebrain.blogspot.co.uk/p/transsex...ntity.html


Previously posted here:

http://atheistforums.org/thread-42551-po...pid1248859

Which also included another newscientist link

Transsexual differences caught on brain scan

Evidence on this forum Chadwooters is that you are a pseudo-intellectual bigot.

[I_am_not_mafia]

This Woman Says She Was Called "Disgusting" After Being Mistaken for Transgender in Walmart Bathroom

That story is most likely pure BS.  

1.  There were no witnesses. 

2.  She claims that she was previously accosted by a guy in a women's restroom who tried to rape her.

3.  She recently wrote an article about the issue.

She's either having a run of bad luck or else she's lying her ass off.

This is not a one-off incident. This is happening more frequently (scroll down for more examples):

https://lexiecannes.com/2015/06/15/cis-w...room-sues/

Are you going to call all these other stories BS as well?

Interesting to note though that your first reaction is to blame the victim.