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**Cyberman** · April 19, 2016 at 9:10 pm

I for one wouldn't follow the creature if it were proven to exist. I would acknowledge that existence, I'd have no choice. But I have far too much human decency than to become one of its footsoldiers.

SteelCurtain · (This post was last modified: April 19, 2016 at 9:12 pm by SteelCurtain.)

It's a moot point. We're too pluralistic. Any leader who appealed to Baptists wouldn't appeal to Presbyterians, etc etc etc.

There are people who fight over everything here, forming factions over the smallest details of a fucking comic book movie, you expect everyone or even a significant majority to agree on this leader? It's an implausible hypothetical.

~~Mystic~~ · April 19, 2016 at 9:12 pm

(April 19, 2016 at 9:07 pm)Faith No More Wrote:
(April 19, 2016 at 8:53 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Ok, but this is exactly what I'm saying. You don't like being told "you must believe in this and follow this path or follow this and that or do this and that and don't do this and that". The core of the issue is you hate the notion of dictating on what to do.

No, the core issue is people dictating how others live based upon their religious beliefs. Religious beliefs are to be kept personal, and just as I have no right to dictate that you should live your life as if there is no god, you have no right to dictate that I live mine as if there is.

But this exactly what I'm saying you have a problem with.

[quote pid='1253495' dateline='1461114421']

(April 19, 2016 at 8:53 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: But if there is no God, you have everyone doing that anyways, You have people making laws, you have society making morals, which differs society to society, and then you have your own confused self that just picks from here and there but mostly finds it's self agreeing to the people he feels identified with the most (atheists). But if there is a God, then who is more worthy to be listened and obeyed and followed and who more worthy of guiding to the truth then the wise knowing creator?

Well, we don't have a "wise knowing creator" guiding us to the truth, do we? All we have are believers with impotent arguments that insist god exists despite a complete inability to produce even the tiniest scrap of evidence of its existence.

And therein lies the rub and the crux of your confusion. The believer seems unable to distinguish between their beliefs and what can be proven.
[/quote]

So the crux of it is that believers make claims that cannot be proven to you. Is it right to say you would however have no problem with religion if there was proof from God of it being true as well as that being the proper God?

**Cyberman** · April 19, 2016 at 9:13 pm

Existence or otherwise of god/s =/= existence of its fan club.

~~Mystic~~ · April 19, 2016 at 9:14 pm

(April 19, 2016 at 9:09 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote:
(April 19, 2016 at 9:04 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Well yes I am curious about Atheists and why they gather.

Personally I don't like it when theists look at me like I have three heads when they find out I don't subscribe to their brand of bulshit - so online I prefer to hang around with people who won't do that, because at least here I have that choice. The only way I can do that IRL is to keep my mouth shut. Fuck that.

IOW you need only look at the behavior of (some) theists and a bit of empathy to understand.

I empathize. It feels more cooler hanging out with you guys then the religious forums I go to be honest. A lot more love and compassion to one another as well.

~~Mystic~~ · April 19, 2016 at 9:20 pm

(April 19, 2016 at 9:11 pm)SteelCurtain Wrote: It's a moot point. We're too pluralistic. Any leader who appealed to Baptists wouldn't appeal to Presbyterians, etc etc etc.

There are people who fight over everything here, forming factions over the smallest details of a fucking comic book movie, you expect everyone or even a significant majority to agree on this leader? It's an implausible hypothetical.

It's an interesting perspective to me, because I am awaiting the Mahdi (the promised one who will bring unity and peace and justice to the world). Is it worth fighting the majority of humanity, majority of your country,etc, if this happens?

I understand intellectually disputing, but, what I'm talking about, is would you support trying to assassinate him and if that fails to fight his followers and not allow even if the majority of the world was about around 80% in following him? If suppose 75% of US all wanted to support him. What would you do?

Simon Moon · April 19, 2016 at 9:35 pm

(April 19, 2016 at 9:08 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:
(April 19, 2016 at 9:05 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: I don't care about other qualities.

All I care about is demonstrable, falsifiable evidence and reasoned argument.

Really so if someone proved God existed, you would follow him? Why would you do that? I don't mean to follow regarding claim of God, I mean in follow the path of God (if God exists).

No!

Just because someone proved a god existed, does not mean I would follow said god.

It all depends on the attributes of the god that was proven to exist.

For example: if the the Quran is an accurate depiction of your god's attributes, I would not want anything to do with him.

**The Valkyrie** · April 19, 2016 at 9:44 pm

(April 19, 2016 at 9:35 pm)Simon Moon Wrote:
(April 19, 2016 at 9:08 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Really so if someone proved God existed, you would follow him? Why would you do that? I don't mean to follow regarding claim of God, I mean in follow the path of God (if God exists).

No!

Just because someone proved a god existed, does not mean I would follow said god.

It all depends on the attributes of the god that was proven to exist.

For example: if the the Quran is an accurate depiction of your god's attributes, I would not want anything to do with him.

This, precisely. If the Abrahamic god proved itself to exist I would believe, but I couldn't worship such an evil being.

SteelCurtain · (This post was last modified: April 19, 2016 at 9:48 pm by SteelCurtain.)

(April 19, 2016 at 9:20 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:
(April 19, 2016 at 9:11 pm)SteelCurtain Wrote: It's a moot point. We're too pluralistic. Any leader who appealed to Baptists wouldn't appeal to Presbyterians, etc etc etc.

There are people who fight over everything here, forming factions over the smallest details of a fucking comic book movie, you expect everyone or even a significant majority to agree on this leader? It's an implausible hypothetical.

It's an interesting perspective to me, because I am awaiting the Mahdi (the promised one who will bring unity and peace and justice to the world). Is it worth fighting the majority of humanity, majority of your country,etc, if this happens?

I understand intellectually disputing, but, what I'm talking about, is would you support trying to assassinate him and if that fails to fight his followers and not allow even if the majority of the world was about around 80% in following him? If suppose 75% of US all wanted to support him. What would you do?

I'd move. Just the same as you poofed this magical Islamic leader into existence that all the yokels in Mississippi drop trou and follow, I poof an undiscovered continent into existence where all the people who have the ability to think for themselves live and go there.

**J a c k** · April 19, 2016 at 9:47 pm

I live in a town where everyone is Catholic and goes to the same church. Parents hate their gay sons and lesbian daughters, because they are sinners. People donate to the church and vote republican. My son has to sing Christmas carols about Jesus in the winter at school. My son is a prohibited friendship to a family down the block, because Jesus. My job is government, but meetings start with prayers. Someone scraped my Darwin sticker off my car. My co-workers sprayed "holy water" on me when they thought I wasn't looking. Must I chill at AF with other atheists? Hell to the yeah.

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