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I'm psychologically ready, dude. Now all I need to see is some evidence. We also have to establish what the problem actually is before we start talking about solutions, not what it might be.
Oh, a thing I forgot to mention earlier...I don't know what it's like in Australia, but because of union laws in America it is illegal for an employer to discipline you in any way for talking about how much you get paid, and the reason for that is so the workers can compare notes among themselves to make sure everyone is being paid fairly. Most employers want you to think you can get in trouble, and I'm sure there are instances of retaliation where the victim never gets justice, but it is absolutely ok on a general basis to talk to your co-workers about how much you get paid. It might not always be considered tasteful, but it is a protected activity nonetheless.
Here's the thing: the solution to systemic wage discrimination was to make it illegal and start punishing people for doing it. If systemic, sexual pay discrimination were still a thing, then that would be the primary factor in the pay disparity, and everyone would know it, and the authorities would not care. Instead, we see that discrimination is maybe a difficult-to-pinpoint fraction of an unexplained percentile of a difference in earnings between the sexes, which is exactly what we would expect to see if it were the seedy, illegal, frowned-upon act that it is.
There's also a thing you're not being clear about: you keep mentioning "subconscious discrimination," but if that "subconscious discrimination" is not causing people to pay women lower wages than men for doing the same work for the same length of time (which generally doesn't seem to be what's happening), then by what mechanism exactly is it detracting from women's pay?
Verbatim from the mouth of Jesus (retranslated from a retranslation of a copy of a copy):
"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you too will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. How can you see your brother's head up his ass when your own vision is darkened by your head being even further up your ass? How can you say to your brother, 'Get your head out of your ass,' when all the time your head is up your own ass? You hypocrite! First take your head out of your own ass, and then you will see clearly who has his head up his ass and who doesn't." Matthew 7:1-5 (also Luke 6: 41-42)
We also need to remember the recent (American) history of "women in the workforce". In the 1920's, only unmarried women were allowed to work outside the home, (in most states) and the choice of professions were limited: schoolteacher, florist, maid . . . It was WWII that brought women into the American work force. This list from 1943 is accurate - my Mother and Aunt, who were single women working in the late 1950's, confirmed that they were given personal work guidelines that described their mode of dress, weight that they must maintain, dating rules, and that they would be fired when they became pregnant.
"1943 Guide to Hiring Women."
The following is an excerpt from the July 1943 issue of Transportation Magazine. This was serious and written for male supervisors of women in the workforce during World War II - a mere 56 years ago!
Eleven Tips on Getting More Efficiency Out of Women Employees:
There's no longer any question whether transit companies should hire women for jobs formerly held by men. The draft and manpower shortage has settled that point. The important things now are to select the most efficient women available and how to use them to the best advantage.
Here are eleven helpful tips on the subject from Western Properties:
1. Pick young married women. They usually have more of a sense of responsibility than their unmarried sisters, they're less likely to be flirtatious, they need the work or they wouldn't be doing it, they still have the pep and interest to work hard and to deal with the public efficiently.
2. When you have to use older women, try to get ones who have worked outside the home at sometime in their life. Older women who have never contacted the public have a hard time adapting themselves and are inclined to be cantankerous and fussy. It's always well to impress upon older women the importance of friendliness and courtesy.
3. General experience indicates that "husky" girls -those who are just a little on the heavy side are more even-tempered and efficient than their underweight sisters.
4. Retain a physician to give each woman you hire a special physical examination - one covering female conditions. This step not only protects the property against the possibilities of lawsuit, but also reveals whether the employee-to-be has any female weaknesses which would make her mentally or physically unfit for the job.
5. Stress at the outset the importance of time, the fact that a minute or two lost here and there makes serious inroads on schedules. Until this point is gotten across, service is likely to be slowed up.
6. Give the female employee a definite day-long schedule of duties so that they'll keep busy without bothering the management for Instructions every few minutes. Numerous properties say that women make excellent workers when they have their jobs cut out for them, but that they lack initiative in finding work themselves.
7. Whenever possible, let the inside employee change from one job to another at some time during the day. Women are inclined to be less nervous and happier with change.
8. Give every girl an adequate number of rest periods during the day. You have to make some allowances for feminine psychology. A girl has more confidence and is more efficient if she can keep her hair tidied, apply fresh lipstick and wash her hands several times a day.
9. Be tactful when issuing instructions or in making criticisms. Women are often sensitive; they can't shrug off harsh words the way men do. Never ridicule a woman - it breaks her spirit and cuts off her efficiency.
10. Be reasonably considerate about using strong language around women. Even though a girl's husband or father may swear vociferously, she'll grow to dislike a place of business where she hears too much of this.
11. Get enough size variety in operator's uniforms so that each girl can have a proper fit. This point can't be stressed too much in keeping women happy.
It was Kennedy's Commission on the Status of Women produced a report in 1963 that revealed, among other things, that women earned 59 cents for every dollar that men earned and were kept out of the more lucrative professional positions. And yes, at this time, it was very deliberate: women were simply worth less than men - everyone knew that the man was supposed to be the breadwinner.
So it's not at all surprising that we are still dealing with the remnants of old attitudes and perceptions.
"The family that prays together...is brainwashing their children."- Albert Einstein
Until the 1970's, a woman could not be issued a credit card.
Only in 1973 was a law passed for all 50 states that allowed a woman to sit on a jury.
Birth control pills were illegal in most states until 1967.
Ivy League schools opened their doors to women in 1969.
Wage discrimination was first abolished in 1964 but was not enforced or taken seriously.
Women were automatically fired for pregnancy until 1978.
Sexual harassment in the workplace was only recognized as a problem in 1978.
Marital rape was not even considered possible until 1993.
As far as history goes, this is a huge recent change. Change usually takes a few generations to take hold.
"The family that prays together...is brainwashing their children."- Albert Einstein
I just got into a discussion with a veterinarian in a discussion group on Facebook. He asked how he could fire an employee for being pregnant without having to go through headaches. He's had several women get pregnant and resign.
The men in the group empathized with him and told him how rough he has it since this has happened before. One of them asked me if "this is the norm" for a practice owner to lose employees because of pregnancy.
If The Flintstones have taught us anything, it's that pelicans can be used to mix cement.
(May 27, 2016 at 2:56 pm)Mermaid Wrote: I just got into a discussion with a veterinarian in a discussion group on Facebook. He asked how he could fire an employee for being pregnant without having to go through headaches. He's had several women get pregnant and resign.
The men in the group empathized with him and told him how rough he has it since this has happened before. One of them asked me if "this is the norm" for a practice owner to lose employees because of pregnancy.
Wow, just wow! That is fucked up, all because a woman gets pregnant. I can understand from his point of view, but have some fucking standards. It's not right that HR and other business do this. Woman should be paid equally across the board, men and woman should have better maturity leave policy's at there place of employment. I've heard some places only give a month or two before they have to go back to work. Which is also very fucked up.
“A man isn't tiny or giant enough to defeat anything” Yukio Mishima
(May 27, 2016 at 1:58 am)Excited Penguin Wrote: I don't really care, to be honest. I'm not going to pity women as a group. If I see two equally capable people and one of them gets payed less, then I'm going to raise an eyebrow, regardless of their gender. But even so, it would be none of my business most of the time. You can't tell businesses who they should pay more and why. That's ridiculous.
Some people get pissed when new hires start out at their current wage. That thinking led companies to institute B scales where new employees doing the same job started out at much lower wages. They were always at an economic disadvantage. Some still haven't reached the top pay scale of their fellow workers. There's a relevant Bible story about worker jealousy in Matthew 20:1-16. Sometimes it's the workers who keep other workers down.
