To circumcise or not to circumcise?

[Athene]

I don't believe the benefits are at all significant enough to justify subjecting a child to such a traumatic procedure. 

But when people deliberately misrepresent the facts or simply talk out of their asses, (especially when knowledge of basic biology or a simple Google search can prove/demonstrate otherwise) the credibility of their overall argument tends to come under scrutiny. Thrown in some hysterics and a dozen or so personal insults, and the aim is likely missed altogether.

Next thing you know....snip snip!

Oh, well...Folks have 6 months to talk CL down; if she comes back to this thread. 
For all I know, she's on her couch eating bon-bons, laughing her ass off at all of this.

[Mr.wizard]

I voted yes, much cleaner look [...]

Really - that's an argument? "Cleaner look"? Pray tell - how does one measure the "cleanliness" of a look of a penis? Because it sounds like an arbitrary  value judgement to me - the kind of rationalization someone would make up, if they wanted to justify a preconceived notion, with no actual facts available. Personally - I think cut d*ck looks sad, ugly, unnatural, and dirty - not only because people, who had it done seem to think, that they don't have to wash it now, but also because the head scrapes against dirty underwear all the time...

But hey - whatever helps you sleep at night, without the urge to punch your mom in the mouth for mutilating your body ...

Argument? Who am I arguing with? I like the way my dick looks, what facts do I need?

[Losty]

Most benefits shown seem to be in places, where hygiene standards are very low and infection rates very high. So - as I said before - perhaps for people, who live in a warm puddle in the middle of the jungle, it might be a useful procedure; better than doing nothing, anyway.

In a similar way , if you don't have modern antibiotics available - then perhaps immediate amputation may be the best treatment of an infection. But if a doctor did that in a modern hospital - he'd be considered a hack and a monster. Because WE HAVE BETTER OPTIONS AVAILABLE NOW. Of course - people who already had their limbs hacked off would probably attempt to glorify the "benefits" of  stumps in an attempt to rationalize a decision - because it's not like they have a choice now, do they? Might as well make yourself feel good about it...

Another good example - beating children. I don't care how many times someone tells me, that their father beating them bloody was a necessity, or even beneficial in some way. That still doesn't make it right...

They still do perform circumcision to treat some medical problems in modern hospitals.

I don't know the precise details but I know 2 people who've been circumcised during adulthood and I'm pretty sure one was std related and both were seemingly the recommended medical procedure given by doctors.

It was medically recommended by 3 separate doctors, one a urologist, to circumcise my son at 7 months old because his foreskin didn't retract. -_-

[account_inactive]

Really - that's an argument? "Cleaner look"? Pray tell - how does one measure the "cleanliness" of a look of a penis? Because it sounds like an arbitrary  value judgement to me - the kind of rationalization someone would make up, if they wanted to justify a preconceived notion, with no actual facts available. Personally - I think cut d*ck looks sad, ugly, unnatural, and dirty - not only because people, who had it done seem to think, that they don't have to wash it now, but also because the head scrapes against dirty underwear all the time...

But hey - whatever helps you sleep at night, without the urge to punch your mom in the mouth for mutilating your body ...

Argument? Who am I arguing with? I like the way my dick looks, what facts do I need?

Do whatever you like, when you reach adult age. But just because you and a few child abusing parents like it doesn't mean it has to forced on kids at birth.

[Heatheness]

They still do perform circumcision to treat some medical problems in modern hospitals.

I don't know the precise details but I know 2 people who've been circumcised during adulthood and I'm pretty sure one was std related and both were seemingly the recommended medical procedure given by doctors.

It was medically recommended by 3 separate doctors, one a urologist, to circumcise my son at 7 months old because his foreskin didn't retract. -_-

Then it was medically necessary, some are, my grandson's was as well but most are not.

[Homeless Nutter]

They still do perform circumcision to treat some medical problems in modern hospitals.

They also perform amputations. When there's no other option. That's not in any way the same, as prophylactic removal of a body part - fairly important to the quality of the child's future sexual life - for no reason at all. Circumcision - just like creationism - is somewhat popular among non-Jews, non-Muslims in US and only there, so no wonder people are less apprehensive about it and some doctors are likely to suggest it.

I live in Europe, where most people consider circumcision a barbaric procedure, associated with religion and certain ethnic identities. Doctors here are in no way quick to recommend it, especially that it would probably not be taken well by most men.

I don't know the precise details but I know 2 people who've been circumcised during adulthood and I'm pretty sure one was std related and both were seemingly the recommended medical procedure given by doctors.

Again - I imagine there are certain circumstances, when foreskin removal is necessary. I don't believe those situations are common, however. I myself was diagnosed with phimosis as a kid - yet there was no need to cut anything and my penis works fine. There are usually other, non-surgical methods to deal with such problems. However if the doctor is convinced, that cut penis is a wonderful thing, because that's what his parents decided for him - he's likely to just break out the scalpel.

[Losty]

It was medically recommended by 3 separate doctors, one a urologist, to circumcise my son at 7 months old because his foreskin didn't retract. -_-

Then it was medically necessary, some are, my grandson's was as well but most are not.

Of course it wasn't but they all said it was and had I not known I'd have had him circumcised not realizing it was unnecessary. My point wasn't that it's never necessary. Just that there's a massive amount of ignorance about it even in the medical field. The 2 doctors who weren't urologists even thought it was a medical emergency that my son's foreskin wasn't retracting and they treated me like some horrible neglectful mother when I told them it's not supposed to retract.

[paulpablo]

They still do perform circumcision to treat some medical problems in modern hospitals.

They also perform amputations. When there's no other option. That's not in any way the same, as prophylactic removal of a body part - fairly important to the quality of the child's future sexual life - for no reason at all.  Circumcision - just like creationism - is somewhat popular among non-Jews, non-Muslims in US and only there, so no wonder people are less apprehensive about it and some doctors are likely to suggest it.

I live in Europe, where most people consider circumcision a barbaric procedure, associated with religion and certain ethnic identities. Doctors here are in no way quick to recommend it, especially that it would probably not be taken well by most men.

I don't know the precise details but I know 2 people who've been circumcised during adulthood and I'm pretty sure one was std related and both were seemingly the recommended medical procedure given by doctors.

Again - I imagine there are certainl circumstances, when foreskin removal is necessary. I don't believe those situations are common, however. I myself was diagnosed with phimosis as a kid - yet there was no need to cut anything and my penis works fine. There are usually other, non-surgical methods to deal with such problems. However if the doctor is convinced, that cut penis is a wonderful thing, because that's what his parents decided for him - he's likely to just break out the scalpel.

I should just add that I am from Europe, from the UK which is still in Europe at the moment.  And yes it's rare but now that I think about it I actually know 3 people who have been circumcised due to medical reasons, 2 in adulthood and another I think his was at birth for a medical reason.
So my point being that even in Europe and in modern medical situations they still do take the option of circumcision.  The NHS is pretty bad but I don't think it's reached a level of using barbaric amputations without reason in general.

[SteelCurtain]

By the way, I am circumcised, as was my father and his father, and is my brother and his son.
I have always been proud of this fact and am only recently starting to appreciate that this pride has come from a sought of primitive, tribal loyalty.

I love whenever people say sought instead of sort. I always read their post in a snooty upperclass southern person's accent.

This made me laugh for three solid minutes.

[SteelCurtain]

By the way, I am circumcised, as was my father and his father, and is my brother and his son.
I have always been proud of this fact and am only recently starting to appreciate that this pride has come from a sought of primitive, tribal loyalty.

I love whenever people say sought instead of sort. I always read their post in a snooty upperclass southern person's accent.

This made me laugh for three solid minutes.