Religion and Spanking

[Excited Penguin]

Nobody yet has talked about this, but I think we should consider that some of the "humane" punishments used by liberals can be as damaging, potentially, as spanking.

The silent treatment is one I got a lot as a kid.  Man, THAT was pain, and I would have traded it for a belt in a heartbeat.  But I don't think I actually learned anything from it (I was just 5 and couldn't really understand why I was being ignored).  Mostly, I remember feeling unloved and outcast, and I think it made me generally insecure.  I don't recall at any point, EVER, thinking "I wish I hadn't _____, and I have to remember not to ____ next time."

But the worst thing my parents did was degrade me:  (at about age 14) "Benjamin, you know I love you because I HAVE to, I'm your mother.  But I really don't like you very much as a person.  Sometimes I wish I never had you."  And I could see that she was watching me carefully, to see if she could make me cry, something a developing young man should never be made to do, in my opinion.  A thousand lashes with a belt won't damage a kid as much as a single sentence uttered in spite, or ANY behavior that is done maliciously rather than out of a desire to help the child develop properly.

Well, I've had every possible kind of abuse except the sexual kind(AFAIK), times 11 in some cases, and I'm pretty fucked up, and yet I know who I am, I value who I am, so I don't regret anything that's happened to me while at the same time, I resent much of it. Again, I'm insanely fucked up, but the one thing I hate the most is thinking about what might've been different. Nothing is more depressing than that. So I say, fuck that, just look forward and get over it.

(That last one wasn't directed at you, just explaining my philosophy - I guess).

[Bob Kelso]

I think the only time I ever felt unloved or like trash was once when my parents pretended they couldn't hear me when I was asking to come out of my room after I had done something I shouldn't have. I went ballistic, and I suppose they realized that wasn't a good way to discipline since they never did it again.

[Vincent]

Nobody yet has talked about this, but I think we should consider that some of the "humane" punishments used by liberals can be as damaging, potentially, as spanking.

The silent treatment is one I got a lot as a kid.  Man, THAT was pain, and I would have traded it for a belt in a heartbeat.  But I don't think I actually learned anything from it (I was just 5 and couldn't really understand why I was being ignored).  Mostly, I remember feeling unloved and outcast, and I think it made me generally insecure.  I don't recall at any point, EVER, thinking "I wish I hadn't _____, and I have to remember not to ____ next time."

But the worst thing my parents did was degrade me:  (at about age 14) "Benjamin, you know I love you because I HAVE to, I'm your mother.  But I really don't like you very much as a person.  Sometimes I wish I never had you."  And I could see that she was watching me carefully, to see if she could make me cry, something a developing young man should never be made to do, in my opinion.  A thousand lashes with a belt won't damage a kid as much as a single sentence uttered in spite, or ANY behavior that is done maliciously rather than out of a desire to help the child develop properly.

This is NOT a liberal approach. 

My stepmother used such tactics on me as a child, and 9/10 times it felt worse than any smack in the face or any spanking she ever gave me. She made sure I felt that I wasn't her TRUE kid. She made sure I felt that I wasn't good enough. She made sure I felt that it was my fault when she yelled at my father for not "disciplining" my sister and I. 

I can't really explain in words exactly what she did.... but it ninja-fucked my brain growing up. I consider myself a decent kid. I got good grades, perfect attendance, never got detention, never did drugs, never sneaked out, never drank alcohol, never got in fights, never engaged in risky behavior. But still, and especially in my teens, I spent most of my time being yelled at and reminded of what a piece of shit I was, and then grounded without any contact with the outside world. I remember being grounded for two and a half months for not flossing my teeth. I remember being backed into the corner of my room and threatened because I wasn't wearing my retainer. She held up her hand to strike me but never did. She just left it suspended in air, watching me quiver in fear, watching me flinch away as I braced for an impact that would never come. I remember then being forced to write 3000 sentences saying "I will wear my retainer"... I brought that shit to school and skipped lunch to finish. I remember her telling me all these things... about how I was stupid, ungrateful, a bitch.... I remember her bringing us to Disneyland and yelling that I was wasting her money when I wanted to go back to the hotel early because I was sick with a fever. And when she was really mad, she would ignore my existence, and that made me long for the sting of her hand. 

I remember the effect that kind of system had on me. I became depressed in high school, borderline suicidal, and I used self-harm as a coping method. I remember lying every day to my friends when they asked what happened. 

She was conservative to the bone. I didn't get hit all the time but she made sure I knew I deserved to be. And that system of punishment is not a system of punishment. It is a system of torment.

[Losty]

I think the only time I ever felt unloved or like trash was once when my parents pretended they couldn't hear me when I was asking to come out of my room after I had done something I shouldn't have. I went ballistic, and I suppose they realized that wasn't a good way to discipline since they never did it again.

Slightly off topic, when I was 5ish my mother sent me to my room under the terms that I could come out if and only if I would eat my coleslaw.
I had a really old space heater in my room which caught fire and subsequently caught the wall on fire. I screamed for help from my doorway for several minutes before my dad came (shouting up that he was bringing his belt to teach me how he felt about shouting for no reason).
When he saw the fire (which taken up the wall by now) he shouted for my mom to get everyone out and call 911.
Then he had to drag me kicking and screaming from my burning room "nooooo I don't want to eat my coleslaw just get a water hose nooooo!"
I had a few minor burns but mostly I just got really sick from breathing in so much smoke. I was never made to eat coleslaw again.
My mother found it really amusing that I would rather die than eat coleslaw. I really do hate that stuff. It's gross.

[bennyboy]

This is NOT a liberal approach. 

Yeah, I kind of went off on a tangent. I meant to talk about grounding and "time outs" and things like that, and also how children left too unsupervised can ALSO feel neglected: "Why do they NEVER show anger, no matter what I do? They don't really seem even to care how I turn out!"

My stepmother used such tactics on me as a child, and 9/10 times it felt worse than any smack in the face or any spanking she ever gave me. She made sure I felt that I wasn't her TRUE kid. She made sure I felt that I wasn't good enough. She made sure I felt that it was my fault when she yelled at my father for not "disciplining" my sister and I.

Parents seem not to understand that kids have memories. My mother's treatment of me isn't really turning out very well for her. She's alone now, and gets little pity (and fewer visists) from me.

I can't really explain in words exactly what she did.... but it ninja-fucked my brain growing up. I consider myself a decent kid. I got good grades, perfect attendance, never got detention, never did drugs, never sneaked out, never drank alcohol, never got in fights, never engaged in risky behavior. But still, and especially in my teens, I spent most of my time being yelled at and reminded of what a piece of shit I was, and then grounded without any contact with the outside world. I remember being grounded for two and a half months for not flossing my teeth. I remember being backed into the corner of my room and threatened because I wasn't wearing my retainer. She held up her hand to strike me but never did. She just left it suspended in air, watching me quiver in fear, watching me flinch away as I braced for an impact that would never come. I remember then being forced to write 3000 sentences saying "I will wear my retainer"... I brought that shit to school and skipped lunch to finish. I remember her telling me all these things... about how I was stupid, ungrateful, a bitch.... I remember her bringing us to Disneyland and yelling that I was wasting her money when I wanted to go back to the hotel early because I was sick with a fever. And when she was really mad, she would ignore my existence, and that made me long for the sting of her hand. 

Yep. Psychological torture as a way for covering her insecurities about being a replacement, I guess. How petty and mean she was. It wasn't you, though-- because it couldn't have been. No matter what you did, you didn't deserve that.

[Godscreated]

---

 Why it's the truth, I did many things I should have been punished for and wasn't caught. If it were not for the spankings I probably would have wound up in jail for a long time, I could be an unruly kid. Don't feel sorry for me, feel sorry for the ones who didn't have parents who cared enough to punish for wrong doings, many of them are in jail. I learned from my mistakes and now live a peaceful good life.

GC

---

Spoken like a true victim of childhood physical mistreatment. 

People like you often rationalize what they experienced by saying they deserved it. But there is a world of difference between being disciplined and taught right from wrong, and being abused. In fact, did you know that according to statistics, individuals who are hit/spanked in childhood are several times more likely to end up in prison? More of the prison population in this country are filled with criminals who had similar experiences to yours. Being hit (especially with objects) can lead to higher levels of anger and aggression when the kid grows up, and it teaches them to use violence to solve problems.

If you think that punishing a kid with a belt or a switch or making them feel pain is the most effective way to teach them and raise them, then I'm sorry. Because if you honestly believe that, it means that you were negatively effected by your parent's treatment; you have been taught that it's okay to abuse children..... and that is the greatest misfortune of all.

 Let me tell you something, your way off track and way out of bounds, my parents did not abuse me and would have never gave abuse a thought. They were extremely loving parents who provided for us and gave us more than we needed. The spankings were punishment for doing certain bad things most often going against what they taught us and not necessarily the act itself. If you had cared to read my first post in this thread you would have seen that I stated spankings are punishment for wrong activities and talking to children is the way to teach and too turn around a child's bad attitudes. You have no idea who my parents are so you should keep your liberal lips closed about them.

GC

[Vincent]

 Let me tell you something, your way off track and way out of bounds, my parents did not abuse me and would have never gave abuse a thought. They were extremely loving parents who provided for us and gave us more than we needed. The spankings were punishment for doing certain bad things most often going against what they taught us and not necessarily the act itself. If you had cared to read my first post in this thread you would have seen that I stated spankings are punishment for wrong activities and talking to children is the way to teach and too turn around a child's bad attitudes. You have no idea who my parents are so you should keep your liberal lips closed about them.

GC

I did not say they were not loving. I simply stated that they used a switch or a belt on you, and that was not correct. Parents are not perfect. And, like I said, it's disheartening to learn that not only did you approve of such methods, but you thought you deserved more. It makes it seem as though you would be willing to use such objects on your own offspring, to continue the cycle of child mistreatment. I've no doubt they loved you, and wanted the best for you, but that does not erase the fact that they hit you with a belt.

[Godscreated]

 Let me tell you something, your way off track and way out of bounds, my parents did not abuse me and would have never gave abuse a thought. They were extremely loving parents who provided for us and gave us more than we needed. The spankings were punishment for doing certain bad things most often going against what they taught us and not necessarily the act itself. If you had cared to read my first post in this thread you would have seen that I stated spankings are punishment for wrong activities and talking to children is the way to teach and too turn around a child's bad attitudes. You have no idea who my parents are so you should keep your liberal lips closed about them.

GC

I did not say they were not loving. I simply stated that they used a switch or a belt on you, and that was not correct. Parents are not perfect. And, like I said, it's disheartening to learn that not only did you approve of such methods, but you thought you deserved more. It makes it seem as though you would be willing to use such objects on your own offspring, to continue the cycle of child mistreatment. I've no doubt they loved you, and wanted the best for you, but that does not erase the fact that they hit you with a belt.

 If I had children and they broke a rule that they knew would be punished by whipping yes I would. If they did something bad and did not understand fully what they had done then we would have a discussion, just as my parents did.

GC

[Edwardo Piet]

I do despair at the world today. How can anyone justify such a thing.

[Vincent]

 If I had children and they broke a rule that they knew would be punished by whipping yes I would. If they did something bad and did not understand fully what they had done then we would have a discussion, just as my parents did.

GC

The problem with "whipping" (which is a vague term that might only include spanking, but can just as likely include belting and beating and many other things) is that it is easy - very easy - to go too far. I believe the general rule in most states is that if it leaves a mark that lasts more than 24 hours, you are venturing into "abuse" territory. You need to have a very good amount of control to be able to use a belt to hit your kid and yet know exactly how much force to use and how frequently in order to not leave that kind of mark. 

If parents want to spank, alright. I don't agree with it, but it's your right as a parent. 

But once we get into this grey area where we are using outside resources and force to make the kid feel pain... that's just too easy to slide into maltreatment.

And what I never understood: why is it acceptable to hit a child - even to belt one - and yet if a person lays a hand one hand on a dog, it's considered animal abuse? Is there a specific reason for this?