New Rule: No Personal Attacks

[Autumnlicious]

That would really be unfortunate. But as mentioned before there are very few boards that have such a rule not in place. Besides, that post you made about AIG works just as well without mentioning names. So why do so?

Because it is the general perception as well that the mods are being far too kind to the newcomers and trolls.

Address the root of the problem, and the rest will follow. Implementing a zero-tolerance like policy without even stating one is trying to find the root is, well, stupid.

Did you ask why people suddenly started slinging insults? The In This Mind scenario reminded me that the initial belligerence came from the newcomer. Like Edward the Theist. And Mr.Olefumi-whadderver.

People here I've found quite willing to take a few ridiculous things. When I joined, I found it quite welcoming.

Now, I've noticed a huge influx of trolls, mods taking forever to smack them down, and a general increase in forum nerd rage. Fact that Sae is rarely posting anymore has removed, what I see, as a positive influence.

If you want to restore what was before, try to gather back up the community highlights and be a bit harsher towards newcomers. Why? Because newcomers have a burden of proof placed on them to show they are not a troll. Established members have already passed that test.

I especially am angry with the Edward the Theist fiasco. That motherf-, er, annoyance should have been at least severely warned early on. Yet it was my impression nothing happened. Godhead was less of a fool, but still, it felt like the mods we're giving him a free pass. What people feel makes a big difference, as I've found out the hard way by being booted by you, Eilonnwy, in a silly irc channel.

Did you say, you clearly have no idea of race, please research it. Or I'll kick you.

Or did you simply kick me, without even giving my argument a chance. For all you know, I could have phrased it poorly, and yet you gave me no quarter.

I, for one, feel a bit burned by the mods, for appearing to give too much leniency to the trolls and newcomers.

Note this is how things appear to me, and hopefully does not reflect the truth.

But in a world of perception, getting proof is a hard thing.

And I, for one, am a limited human being with poor perception...

And no knowledge of race (never mind the schooling, etc,.)

[leo-rcc]

I don't follow you at all. Who kicked who? And I never asked anything. Can you boil this down for me please cause I am not following your train of thought here.

[Ace Otana]

Probably start checking around for another board.

You won't. Since you know how good you have it here.
I'll only abandon a forum if I find it boring, if it has very low activity or too much censorship like RDF.
This forum has none of those. It's active, fun and has very little censorship.

Besides, you can still call people's posts stupid, crazy/madness and idiotic. Just not the person.

I agree with the new rules, even if I had my fair share of insults.
I'm ok with attacking posts only.

[Eilonnwy]

Syn, the IRC chat is not the forums, first of all.

Second, kicking is not a ban. I do it all the time as a joke to other people, Adrian has done it to me. Some of us have it set up so that when we get kicked we automatically log back in. It's a pretty ineffectual little jab. It's not meant to be taken seriously, but since you did, I apologize for that. I didn't realize you would take it as me booting you out to not come back.

It seems to me you are arguing for unequal treatment of our members. To put new members under a microscope and let old members do what they want. First off, the problem was not just with new members. I've noticed a trend of old veterans beating on new theists pretty hard. I don't think that's fair.

Second, we're not about treating members differently because of seniority. We want to treat every member the same, and to do that we have to enforce the rules equally. Furthermore, to not have an insult rule but only a flame rule leads to a lot of subjective moderator action based on who deems what is an insult and what is flaming.

To ban Godhead or Edward for their behavior immediately would be unfair when some veterans are giving as good as they get. Hence, they were not banned immediately. In fact they were banned for reasons not covered by the personal attack rule, but different ones. We had to wait for them to break another rule before we could act if we were to treat members equally.

The better thing to do is enact a fair rule that allows us to handle the bad apples immediately and treats everyone fairly. We don't want to alienate new members by holding them to different standards then how we hold veterans. We want to welcome them and make it feel like a friendly place to come to. We can only do that by not allowing personal attacks by members, veteran or new, and that includes moderators.

Hey, I've been insulting in the past, I've admitted as much before. I'm not proud of it. I regret it. I don't think I have a right to throw around attacks and then deny that to a new member, because I'm a veteran, or worse a mod. I would also much rather present myself in a much more civil way anyway. We want to hold everyone to the same standard.

If you feel members aren't being held to the same standard, let us know. Report a post. Reporting prompts discussion by all staff members, as it creates a thread in a private staff forum. Remember, we're all humans. There is a lot of activity here. I try to monitor posts and I know the other mods do to, but we still can and do miss bad behavior. That's why reporting is so important. If you think we missed something, report it. The worst that can happen is we deem it not actionable and do nothing.

Long story short, this new rule will allow moderators to act sooner, like in cases of Edward and others. Meanwhile, it will allow new members to come in and feel welcome because sometimes a new member might say something that a lot of people disagree with, they get called an idiot and don't come back. Both scenarios, of letting a troll survive longer than he should, and scaring away members for possibly having a different ideology, are not conducive to the goal of this forum. This rule neatly solves both problems.

[Tiberius]

I, for one, am not happy with the changes being made and I think I have a pretty good idea who's influence is responsible for them.

Just to clear something up; I was the one who initiated the staff discussion about the new rule. I said outright that the current behavior on the forum had made me regret voting the way I did in the poll, and that we should reconsider the rule.

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

You won't. Since you know how good you have it here.

Compared with where? I belong to several other forums. Some are not as good,some are as good, and one is better all round,in my opinion.

I stay here partly because it suits me, and because people are accepting of me. However, THE reasons are because I enjoy being here, and get some mental stimulation. Should either or both of those things cease,I'll leave and find another forum to make up my quota of forums. That usually takes about 30 minutes,including lurking.

Internet forums are not democracies,there are no rights, only privileges.Those who run forums may arbitrarily set any rules they like.If enough people dislike the rules, a forum folds. Most of the better forums do not accept personal attacks,some do not even accept expletives.

I find it a challenge to attack an argument without also attacking the person. What makes it fun is that many of the visitors we get can't tell the difference.(but our mods can.) Being patronising or dismissive can be far more insulting than a direct insult, although I think indifference is much more offensive than the most creative insult..

[Nitsuj]

Why should I care?

[tackattack]

I considered the vote more of a poll anyways, this isn't a democracy or created by the people (although we do all make it better ). I agree 100 % with padriac's sentiments on this issue. Wish I would have read through the posts before posting then I would have just kudo'ed and +1

[KichigaiNeko]

You won't. Since you know how good you have it here.

Compared with where? I belong to several other forums. Some are not as good,some are as good, and one is better all round,in my opinion.

I stay here partly because it suits me, and because people are accepting of me. However, THE reasons are because I enjoy being here, and get some mental stimulation. Should either or both of those things cease,I'll leave and find another forum to make up my quota of forums. That usually takes about 30 minutes,including lurking.

Internet forums are not democracies,there are no rights, only privileges.Those who run forums may arbitrarily set any rules they like.If enough people dislike the rules, a forum folds. Most of the better forums do not accept personal attacks,some do not even accept expletives.

I find it a challenge to attack an argument without also attacking the person. What makes it fun is that many of the visitors we get can't tell the difference.(but our mods can.) Being patronising or dismissive can be far more insulting than a direct insult, although I think indifference is much more offensive than the most creative insult..

^^^^

WHS

+1
Agree pad!!

[LastPoet]

Well, I know I'm a relatively new member, so I don't have much experience on the forum. The application of this new rule doesn't affect me 'cause I don't use insults, but I can't help feeling 'queezy' about the whole thing, much like Paul has explained. Nevertheless, I am convinced by the arguments presented here towards the rule by the staff, so I will let go of my feelings on this. I tried to make a point on the thread about insulting me, but the mistake I made was about thinking everyone could have the tough skin I have towards insults. Realizing this only convinces me more that its beneficial to apply this rule.

@Minimalist: Man, it would be a bad thing if you left the boards, your concise posts, short and sweet answers are valuable (at least to me).