Roman Catholic officials and ratlines

[mcolafson]

[Minimalist]

I don't know why you are so surprised.

“I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so”

[Adolph Hitler, to Gen. Gerhard Engel, 1941]

[RobertE]

I don't know why you are so surprised.

Hitlers bed pal:


So, Hitler, the catholics and the muslims all against the Jewish.

We can even add the Protestant British Royal family to that too:

[mcolafson]

[Pat Mustard]

[mcolafson]

[SenpaiNoticeMeYouBlindShmuck]

Why would the Vatican oppose Germany? Certainly, they had motivation to later during the war once it came out Hitler had some half baked plan to kidnap the Pope and either use him as or install a puppet but for the most part Germany is a major powerbase of the Catholic church, especially since the early 1800's ever more so.

It's not because Germany produces almost all of the Catholic Church's leading official theologians for the past two hundred years but thanks to Bismark to be a Catholic in Germany one has to pay a tithe of between 8-10% of your yearly income to the German Catholic church or be branded an apostate. That means what it sounds, even today if you live in Germany you can pay 8-10% of your income a year or you will 100% guaranteed be going to hell.

It remains as true today as it was back in Hitler's day. The US may have superseded Germany in terms of donations today but Germany still isn't far behind at number 2 as the goose who keeps laying golden eggs. Why wouldn't they side with the one literally flooding them with cash? Bear in mind Hitler's first government was a coalition, with the major partner being no less than....The Catholic Center Party.

As for individual priests support varied. There are examples of people of a variety of nationalities and ranks supporting the allies and refugees, Mother Pascalina who was German was only a nun but in practice she was the right hand of the Pope and held huge influence over him and she is known to have used her power to support and hide Jews from the Nazis. Likewise Monsignor Hugh O'Flaherty is estimated to have helped 4,000 potential nazi victims flee Germany. Likewise there are also examples of priests like Joseph Tizo, the then Slovakian leader who wanted to establish National Socialism within his own country, fully supported Hitler and activley contributed towards the so called Final Solution by deporting "undesirables" to German camps.

There is a lot to suggest the Vatican was initially more inclined to support the Germans, but refrained from open support in case Germany lost. Not all of the leadership was pro-German that said, Cardinal Spellman of the US allegedly made a few odd deals with the mafia to cause some trouble for the Axis powers. He was likely among the minority, and that said he only really begun this more than halfway through the war when it's possible the Cardinal's realized the Nazi state was a bull they wouldn't be able to ride.

[abaris]

Bear in mind Hitler's first government was a coalition, with the major partner being no less than....The Catholic Center Party.

Wrong. Papen originally came from the Zentrum, but the coalition was formed between the DNVP and the NSDAP and supported by the Stahlhelm. Papen wasn't affiliated with any party at that point in time.

This discussion is mostly true, however, although the details only scratch the surface. Such as the Croatian slaughterer Ante Pavelic, who made it out, thanks to the Vatican. Even considered a beast by the German foreign office under Ribbentrop, and that´really says something. Pacelli was mainly motivated by two factors. One that he had spent many years as nuntius in Germany and the other that he had his pants full when thinking of Stalin. His role is less than admirable during the war, but he also opened the Vatican to take in jews.

Doesn't change the fact that figures such as Hudal or Draganović had more or less free reign after the war to ship criminals to safety. Sometimes supported by the OSS having their own cynical reasons for helping. They were instrumental in bringing out such august figures as Klaus“ Barbie, the slaughterer of Lion among others.

[SenpaiNoticeMeYouBlindShmuck]

Bear in mind Hitler's first government was a coalition, with the major partner being no less than....The Catholic Center Party.

Wrong. Papen originally came from the Zentrum, but the coalition was formed between the DNVP and the NSDAP and supported by the Stahlhelm. Papen wasn't affiliated with any party at that point in time.

This discussion is mostly true, however, although the details only scratch the surface. Such as the Croatian slaughterer Ante P?avelic made it out, thanks to the Vatican. Even considered a beast by the German foreign office, and that´really says something. Pacelli was mainly motivated by two factors. One that he had spent many years as nuntius in Germany and the other that he had his pants full when thinking of Stalin. His role is less than admirable during the war, but he also opened the Vatican to take in jews.

Doesn't change the fact that figures such as Hudal or Draganović had more or less free reign after the war to ship criminals to safety. Sometimes supported by the OSS having their own cynical reasons for helping. They were instrumental in bringing out such august figures as Klaus“ Barbie, the slaughterer of Lion among others.

Interesting, thank you. The works I'd read on the subject tend to focus more on the role of Ludwig Kaas acting under guidance from Pius XII than Papen in the Catholic/Nazi alliance, I didn't know that.

He might have opened up the Vatican to the Jews, but by that point don't you think Hitler had made it clear he was going to steamroller Italy including the Vatican hence why he wanted to suck up to the allies real fast?

Then again, just how much a say Pius XII might have had might be hard to say. There's a lot of accounts that suggest he was more or less Pascalina's puppet and couldn't do anything without her.But if he was her own actions during the war suggest her being anti-Nazi if anything. There was definitely something odd with he, once Pius XII died the Cardinals literally exiled her from the Vatican that same day, couldn't get rid of her fast enough.

It's confusing, and no-one probably knows the full story anymore.

[abaris]

Interesting, thank you. The works I'd read on the subject tend to focus more on the role of Ludwig Kaas acting under guidance from Pius XII than Papen in the Catholic/Nazi alliance, I didn't know that.  

Papen was instrumental, since he was the arbiter between the money men and Hindenburg. Hindenburg didn't like Hitler, but he sure liked Papen. On the other side was Hugenberg, the german Murdoch of the time, and the figurehead of the industrial barons, who also was in the first administration of 1933.