Ask an absentee father.

[The Grand Nudger]

It's not, and I'm not much of a stalker.  I;ve covered about half of the distance that was once between us with my move to KY.  That's as far north as our money could carry us, for now. It does weigh on me, though, especially trying to gauge whether or not I have a right to just show up, in truth (not legally, but as a good man). Some part of me wants to, but the other part, that;s been away from her for more than a decade, is terrified all the same. Imagine meeting your child, truly, only when she was a near adult. Tjhere will be questions I can't, and won't...answer. How would it work. On and on. But I try not to dwell too often or too deeply.

[LadyForCamus]

What do you think is the worst consequence that could happen if you DID show up?

[The Grand Nudger]

There's no end to the possible consequences, really, because I don't know anything about their life.  For all I know (and this was my situation once upon a time) my daughter has a father, whom she has always known to be her father, and her mother has never dissuaded her of this, in fact it may be that her mother is in love with the man and he;s been a -good- father.  Telling a teenager that the two most important people in her life have been hiding something like that from her, no good.  Or, perhaps, her mother has told her things about me or about us, and I..not knowing what they are, would unintentionally present a counter narrative (those questions I cant and wont answer, I mentioned to an earlier post). Or maybe, like I did once upon a time with my own biological dad, she'll see me the once, and never wonder or interact with me again.  

To be blunt, the number of negative outcomes likely outweighs the number of positive outcomes, and I'm not a gushy man who goes in for tropes about happy reunions and how kids are better off with or knowing their bio-x...or that a parent in my situation has a right or a need to insert themselves in their children's lives. The worst that could happen is very literally the culmination of years of my nightmares, and the best that can happen isn't all that far from a nightmare either. Seeing her wouldn't change the relationship we don't have. I can;t wind that clock back and make things happen some other way, or smooth anything over. Seeing her wouldn't be an icebreaker it wouldn't be the beginning of a relationship, in our case.

If I get a call from her, or her mother, my assessment might change. She knows where I live, they visit my family..and her mother asks them not to tell me that they're in town. I was, once upon a time, 5 minutes from my daughter and I was the only person in my family not to know it. The rest of them were terrified that she would stop coming if they breached that request. I can understand, she's adorable, we all love her, we all want to see her. So, knowing that, you tell me..what's the worst that could happen? I, personally, spend far too much time wondering about that already, lol.

[Jackalope]

Do you feel guilt over it?

[LadyForCamus]

There's no end to the possible consequences, really, because I don't know anything about their life.  For all I know (and this was my situation once upon a time) my daughter has a father, whom she has always known to be her father, and her mother has never dissuaded her of this, in fact it may be that her mother is in love with the man and he;s been a -good- father.  Telling a teenager that the two most important people in her life have been hiding something like that from her, no good.  Or, perhaps, her mother has told her things about me or about us, and I..not knowing what they are, would unintentionally present a counter narrative (those questions I cant and wont answer, I mentioned to an earlier post). Or maybe, like I did once upon a time with my own biological dad, she'll see me the once, and never wonder or interact with me again.

I'm sorry; I wasn't trying to bait you with that question at all. Every person's individual set of circumstances will yield different sets of possible outcomes. Not knowing the specifics of yours, I was genuinely curious how the weighing of positive versus negative potential outcomes had turned out for you. Obviously, if she has no idea that her "father" is not her bio-father, showing up on her door step would be devastating.

To be blunt, the number of negative outcomes likely outweighs the number of positive outcomes, and I'm not a gushy man who goes in for tropes about happy reunions and how kids are better off with or knowing their bio-x...or that a parent in my situation has a right or a need to insert themselves in their children's lives.

I understand, and I agree. My husband's bio-mom left when he was approx. one and a half years old. She was 19, and his father was (is) a drunk who NEVER came around to help. Always at the bar. My husband was raised by his grandmother and he turned out an emotionally healthy, well-adjusted, hard working adult. Bio-mom has made a descent attempt over the last few years to ignite a relationship with my husband and our son via phone conversations (she lives out of state) and he accommodates her because he understands that the connection helps assuage her obvious guilt, but he has no emotional or psychological need for her in his life. There is no "mommy-gap" in his psyche. She remains a stranger to him, and sometimes that's the best thing for everyone involved.

The worst that could happen is very literally the culmination of years of my nightmares, and the best that can happen isn't all that far from a nightmare either. Seeing her wouldn't change the relationship we don't have. I can;t wind that clock back and make things happen some other way, or smooth anything over. Seeing her wouldn't be an icebreaker it wouldn't be the beginning of a relationship, in our case.

I am genuinely sorry for your open wound. [emoji45] I can't imagine what it must feel like to have a child out in the world somewhere knowing that there aren't any realistic paths to healing that pain, or at least closing the gap.

If I get a call from her, or her mother, my assessment might change. She knows where I live, they visit my family..and her mother asks them not to tell me that they're in town. I was, once upon a time, 5 minutes from my daughter and I was the only person in my family not to know it. The rest of them were terrified that she would stop coming if they breached that request. I can understand, she's adorable, we all love her, we all want to see her. So, knowing that, you tell me..what's the worst that could happen? I, personally, spend far too much time wondering about that already, lol.

Perhaps you could reach out to her mother discreetly, and feel her out? Maybe showing an interest from your end will generate some empathy (or maybe guilt) out of the ex?

[Excited Penguin]

There's no end to the possible consequences, really, because I don't know anything about their life.  For all I know (and this was my situation once upon a time) my daughter has a father, whom she has always known to be her father, and her mother has never dissuaded her of this, in fact it may be that her mother is in love with the man and he;s been a -good- father.  Telling a teenager that the two most important people in her life have been hiding something like that from her, no good.  Or, perhaps, her mother has told her things about me or about us, and I..not knowing what they are, would unintentionally present a counter narrative (those questions I cant and wont answer, I mentioned to an earlier post). Or maybe, like I did once upon a time with my own biological dad, she'll see me the once, and never wonder or interact with me again.  

To be blunt, the number of negative outcomes likely outweighs the number of positive outcomes, and I'm not a gushy man who goes in for tropes about happy reunions and how kids are better off with or knowing their bio-x...or that a parent in my situation has a right or a need to insert themselves in their children's lives.  The worst that could happen is very literally the culmination of years of my nightmares, and the best that can happen isn't all that far from a nightmare either.  Seeing her wouldn't change the relationship we don't have.  I can;t wind that clock back and make things happen some other way, or smooth anything over.  Seeing her wouldn't be an icebreaker it wouldn't be the beginning of a relationship, in our case.

If I get a call from her, or her mother, my assessment might change.  She knows where I live, they visit my family..and her mother asks them not to tell me that they're in town.  I was, once upon a time, 5 minutes from my daughter and I was the only person in my family not to know it.  The rest of them were terrified that she would stop coming if they breached that request.  I can understand, she's adorable, we all love her, we all want to see her.  So, knowing that, you tell me..what's the worst that could happen?  I, personally, spend far too much time wondering about that already, lol.

This breaks my heart, like majorly...

[The Grand Nudger]

There's no end to the possible consequences, really, because I don't know anything about their life.  For all I know (and this was my situation once upon a time) my daughter has a father, whom she has always known to be her father, and her mother has never dissuaded her of this, in fact it may be that her mother is in love with the man and he;s been a -good- father.  Telling a teenager that the two most important people in her life have been hiding something like that from her, no good.  Or, perhaps, her mother has told her things about me or about us, and I..not knowing what they are, would unintentionally present a counter narrative (those questions I cant and wont answer, I mentioned to an earlier post). Or maybe, like I did once upon a time with my own biological dad, she'll see me the once, and never wonder or interact with me again.

I'm sorry; I wasn't trying to bait you with that question at all.  Every person's individual set of circumstances will yield different sets of possible outcomes.  Not knowing the specifics of yours, I was genuinely curious how the weighing of positive versus negative potential outcomes had turned out for you.  Obviously, if she has no idea that her "father" is not her bio-father, showing up on her door step would be devastating.

LOL, no..nononono, no apologies.  Not what this thread is about.  Besides, I'm not so fragile.   There's really nothing that anyone can say in this thread that I'd take as baiting, nothing that will get under my skin.  

Yeah, it;s likely to be shitty, that;s the thing that seems not to have crossed the mind of doorstep dads, shall we call them.  

I understand, and I agree.  My husband's bio-mom left when he was approx. one and a half years old.  She was 19, and his father was (is) a drunk who NEVER came around to help.  Always at the bar.  My husband was raised by his grandmother and he turned out an emotionally healthy, well-adjusted, hard working adult.  Bio-mom has made a descent attempt over the last few years to ignite a relationship with my husband and our son via phone conversations (she lives out of state) and he accommodates her because he understands that the connection helps assuage her obvious guilt, but he has no emotional or psychological need for her in his life.   There is no "mommy-gap" in his psyche.  She remains a stranger to him, and sometimes that's the best thing for everyone involved.

Sometimes, I'd agree.

I am genuinely sorry for your open wound.  [emoji45]  I can't imagine what it must feel like to have a child out in the world somewhere knowing that there aren't any realistic paths to healing that pain, or at least closing the gap.  

Like any of lifes disappointments, we learn to cope, right?  I'm mostly a jovial dude, not in spite of but because of these sorts of things in my life.  I used to be a sourpuss.....then I learned about -real- anguish, lol.

Perhaps you could reach out to her mother discreetly, and feel her out?  Maybe showing an interest from your end will generate some empathy (or maybe guilt) out of the ex?

Maybe, someday, here again though I'd leave the impetus with her mother.  I don't need her empathy and don't think she has anything to feel guilty about.  As terrible as it all might sound, from just this end of the convo, there are reasons for all of this, on the other end.   I make jokes, but she's a great person (I -did- marry her, I have good taste).  Strangely enough (or really, not, knowing the specifics), it's my own family that irritates the shit out of me in all this (and in our marriage it was the same for us both).  We parted on as amicable terms as any marriage does, I think.  There was only one lawyer, there was no argument, no case.  The last day I saw either of them was also the last day I hopped in the sack with the ex, lol.  

It just didn't work out, and our support networks were too far from each other for us to maintain anything beyond what we had.  She couldn't (and wouldn't) stay where we lived, which is where I'm from... thus the house needed to go(she is raising my daughter, after all - and why would I need that house if not for them?).   She wanted a clean slate and I wanted her to have what she wanted.  There are always consequnces to mistakes, they are inescapable - for someone.  I saw an opportunity to see to it that someone wasn;t going to be the woman who was determined to raise my child, and also to have a life apart from me - which she deserves. I should have added a caveat to the story earlier. She visits my family because it;s cheaper than a hotel, and she used to take our daughter to disney regularly. I think she just wanted to take our duaghter to disney, not deal with me, because if they were that close and I knew it I couldn't help myself, showing up babbling, whimpering and whining and begging and pleading. Who wants that noise? No one. They just wanted to see the Magic fucking Kingdom, rgr?

[LadyForCamus]

I'm sorry; I wasn't trying to bait you with that question at all.  Every person's individual set of circumstances will yield different sets of possible outcomes.  Not knowing the specifics of yours, I was genuinely curious how the weighing of positive versus negative potential outcomes had turned out for you.  Obviously, if she has no idea that her "father" is not her bio-father, showing up on her door step would be devastating.

LOL, no..nononono, no apologies.  Not what this thread is about.  Besides, I'm not so fragile.   There's really nothing that anyone can say in this thread that I'd take as baiting, nothing that will get under my skin.  

Yeah, it;s likely to be shitty, that;s the thing that seems not to have crossed the mind of doorstep dads, shall we call them.  

I understand, and I agree.  My husband's bio-mom left when he was approx. one and a half years old.  She was 19, and his father was (is) a drunk who NEVER came around to help.  Always at the bar.  My husband was raised by his grandmother and he turned out an emotionally healthy, well-adjusted, hard working adult.  Bio-mom has made a descent attempt over the last few years to ignite a relationship with my husband and our son via phone conversations (she lives out of state) and he accommodates her because he understands that the connection helps assuage her obvious guilt, but he has no emotional or psychological need for her in his life.   There is no "mommy-gap" in his psyche.  She remains a stranger to him, and sometimes that's the best thing for everyone involved.

Sometimes, I'd agree.

I am genuinely sorry for your open wound.  [emoji45]  I can't imagine what it must feel like to have a child out in the world somewhere knowing that there aren't any realistic paths to healing that pain, or at least closing the gap.  

Like any of lifes disappointments, we learn to cope, right?  I'm mostly a jovial dude, not in spite of but because of these sorts of things in my life.  I used to be a sourpuss.....then I learned about -real- anguish, lol.

Perhaps you could reach out to her mother discreetly, and feel her out?  Maybe showing an interest from your end will generate some empathy (or maybe guilt) out of the ex?

Maybe, someday, here again though I'd leave the impetus with her mother.  I don't need her empathy and don't think she has anything to feel guilty about.  As terrible as it all might sound, from just this end of the convo, there are reasons for all of this, on the other end.   I make jokes, but she's a great person (I -did- marry her, I have good taste).  Strangely enough (or really, not, knowing the specifics), it's my own family that irritates the shit out of me in all this (and in our marriage it was the same for us both).  We parted on as amicable terms as any marriage does, I think.  There was only one lawyer, there was no argument, no case.  The last day I saw either of them was also the last day I hopped in the sack with the ex, lol.  

It just didn't work out, and our support networks were too far from each other for us to maintain anything beyond what we had.  She couldn't (and wouldn't) stay where we lived, which is where I'm from... thus the house needed to go(she is raising my daughter, after all - and why would I need that house if not for them?).   She wanted a clean slate and I wanted her to have what she wanted.  There are always consequnces to mistakes, they are inescapable - for someone.  I saw an opportunity to see to it that someone wasn;t going to be the woman who was determined to raise my child, and also to have a life apart from me - which she deserves. I should have added a caveat to the story earlier. She visits my family because it;s cheaper than a hotel, and she used to take our daughter to disney regularly. I think she just wanted to take our duaghter to disney, not deal with me, because if they were that close and I knew it I couldn't help myself, showing up babbling, whimpering and whining and begging and pleading. Who wants that noise? No one. They just wanted to see the Magic fucking Kingdom, rgr?

Well, it sounds like you handled the entire situation like a mature adult with only his family's best interests in mind. You certainly can't beat yourself up for THAT. The least she could have done is repay that selflessness with some interaction and involvement on her end. [emoji848]

[The Grand Nudger]

Well, it sounds like you handled the entire situation like a mature adult with only his family's best interests in mind.  You certainly can't beat yourself up for THAT.  

Well, lol, I'd -like- to throw a temper tantrum about it, stomp my feet and shout at ceiling fans....but I don;t think it would help, so I didn't have much of a choice about how I handled it, lol.  I did;t handle it particularly well then, beyond those few redeeming factors which become the only things that remained in my opinions after all the temper tantrums played themselves out.  

I'm calm -now-, after a decade, a loving marriage to a more..shall we say "suitable" woman?  Four more wonderful kids that I do have a deep and constant relationship with, and alot of soul searching with friends (a good portion of which happened on these very boards, so..not ancient history).  

The least she could have done is repay that selflessness with some interaction and involvement on her end.  [emoji848]

Like I said, I avoid the trap of thinking I'm owed something.  It would be nice, though, maybe...lol, for sure?  That's the funny thing about it.  No matter how much I might want that, I can't escape the fear that it would be utterly horrid.  In my mind, the only thing that would be worse than being an absentee father by circumstance, would be to be an absentee father because I lack the opportunity to avail myself of those interactions or they simply aren't invited.  The former is something I know, it's the situation at hand. I'd see her, if I saw her... maybe, once a year. The latter is something I don't know, and in the worst case wouldn't -want- to know. Human frailty, I guess, because bringing back the subject of what is owed to whom, or what could be done at least, my daughters probably the only person with any claim. Maybe the least I could do -is- horn in and give her the opportunity to make that decision. Do we all deserve to know our fathers (and is our father the man who sired us or the man who raised us)? My own fear of rejection can't be ignored as a possible bias in why I do or don't do what I do.

In any case, any maturity, and thoughtfulness I might enjoy on this subject relative to how others might take it..probably boils down to my experience on the other end of the same narrative as the child whose father (bio) was absent by circumstance. I;ve had practice, that's basically cheating in context. It's no wonder I didn't handle it like some of the most despondent or irresponsible...though I had my moments, lol

[LadyForCamus]

Well, it sounds like you handled the entire situation like a mature adult with only his family's best interests in mind.  You certainly can't beat yourself up for THAT.  

Well, lol, I'd -like- to throw a temper tantrum about it, stomp my feet and shout at ceiling fans....but I don;t think it would help, so I didn't have much of a choice about how I handled it, lol.  I did;t handle it particularly well then, beyond those few redeeming factors which become the only things that remained in my opinions after all the temper tantrums played themselves out.  

I'm calm -now-, after a decade, a loving marriage to a more..shall we say "suitable" woman?  Four more wonderful kids that I do have a deep and constant relationship with, and alot of soul searching with friends (a good portion of which happened on these very boards, so..not ancient history).  

The least she could have done is repay that selflessness with some interaction and involvement on her end.  [emoji848]

Like I said, I avoid the trap of thinking I'm owed something.  It would be nice, though, maybe...lol, for sure?  That's the funny thing about it.  No matter how much I might want that, I can't escape the fear that it would be utterly horrid.  In my mind, the only thing that would be worse than being an absentee father by circumstance, would be to be an absentee father because I lack the opportunity to avail myself of those interactions or they simply aren't invited.  The former is something I know, it's the situation at hand. I'd see her, if I saw her... maybe, once a year. The latter is something I don't know, and in the worst case wouldn't -want- to know. Human frailty, I guess, because bringing back the subject of what is owed to whom, or what could be done at least, my daughters probably the only person with any claim. Maybe the least I could do -is- horn in and give her the opportunity to make that decision. Do we all deserve to know our fathers (and is our father the man who sired us or the man who raised us)? My own fear of rejection can't be ignored as a possible bias in why I do or don't do what I do.

In any case, any maturity, and thoughtfulness I might enjoy on this subject relative to how others might take it..probably boils down to my experience on the other end of the same narrative as the child whose father (bio) was absent by circumstance. I;ve had practice, that's basically cheating in context. It's no wonder I didn't handle it like some of the most despondent or irresponsible...though I had my moments, lol

Oh, fear of rejection can be paralyzing. It obviously is in this case, as you literally can not bring yourself to make a move. Ugh. This is a really tough situation here, Rhythm. Part of me feels like...every kid DOES deserve the opportunity to choose for themselves. If your ex has NOT told your daughter she has a bio-dad out there who may or may not be interested in knowing her (and 13 is certainly old enough to breach the subject, IMO), I think that's wrong.

When he was a child, my husband's mother was writing him letters for a time. Letters that his father was intercepting and throwing away before he ever knew they existed, and my husband is still extremely resentful of his dad for that conspiratorial behavior. It robbed him of a sense of control over his own life. You may not allow yourself feel you're owed anything because in the end it's not about you, and you're a good man for maintaining that POV after all this time, but that doesn't mean SHE isn't owed the truth. But, you've no idea if that's even the situation for sure, do you?

How about bout this...I'LL call your ex, eh? I'll feel her out, and get back to you with either a [emoji106] or [emoji107]

[emoji13]