Oh, ffs.

[abaris]

I wonder if this change in attitude has anything to do with my treatment here on this forum.

What goes around comes around. If you give the image of being an asshole, you will be treated as such. If you say something sensible, the same rule applies.

[Cato]

Boru, she is choosing to listen to the Pope, so she shouldn't have a problem doing so. If she does, she can always stop doing it.

Right, because what we all learn from conversion stories is how trivially easy it is to turn off years of indoctrination. FFS indeed.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

What I don't doubt is that you've gone and got you knickers in a twist over something utterly trivial.


Boru

Utterly trivial for you maybe. But not for someone who's lost about 80 percent of his family in the real deal. It's not utterly trivial for me. It's stupid and offensive, since it doesn't even come close to this much ado about nothing over burial rites.

It isn't SUPPOSED to come close to it. If you haven't grasped that by now, I don't think I can help you.

Boru

[abaris]

If you haven't grasped that by now, I don't think I can help you.

Boru

Yes, indeed, you can't help me. But I wonder how your original post can have some higher meaning than drawing a comparison. Polemics for polemic's sake would be another word for it.

[Excited Penguin]

Catholic fatwa's. And some Catholics wonder why they're laughed at.

Addressing the bickering, I think those that treat this as a simply voluntary organization with rules accepted or denied by consenting adults underestimate the influence of the church in hanging  a reservation in hell over the heads of its devout with this type of shit. Boru is correct in his estimation of the abject lack of concern the church has with the emotional well being of its flock.

I think there's also a lack of consideration for Catholic majority nations turning this into the law of the land. Might want to seek out a Pole if your confused about my meaning.

Tolerance of illiberal principles is indicative of the regressive left. This type of religious based bullshit deserves all the derision and ridicule one can muster.

What illiberal principles?

If you can better argue that point about a Catholic equivalent of Sharia law being reinstuted into existence after centuries of progress in the opposite direction I might just pay your fears some further mind.

[abaris]

If you can better argue that point about a Catholic equivalent of Sharia law being reinstuted into existence after centuries of progress in the opposite direction I might just pay your fears some further mind.

Religious Sharia of any kind isn't a thing in any part of the Western world. The muslims only makin up 4 to 5 percent of any given population and much less of them desiring Sharia law isn't a clear and present danger. Catholics, as I said before, don't hold any clout and are the most uninterested bunch of them all, apart from maybe Unitarians.

[Excited Penguin]

If you can better argue that point about a Catholic equivalent of Sharia law being reinstuted into existence after centuries of progress in the opposite direction I might just pay your fears some further mind.

Religious Sharia of any kind isn't a thing in any part of the Western world. The muslims only makin up 4 to 5 percent of any given population and much less of them desiring Sharia law isn't a clear and present danger. Catholics, as I said before, don't hold any clout and are the most uninterested bunch of them all, apart from maybe Unitarians.

It isn't now. It might become a one in the future.

[abaris]

It isn't now. It might become a one in the future.

When? When do you realistically think this might become a majority without depopulating the Middle East and Africa?

Apart from Sharia not being what you might want to believe. Sharia at it's core is about settling border and property disputes by a mediator. Only a tiny part is punitive. But for obvious reasons our rightwingers only concentrate on the punitive part.

[Excited Penguin]

It isn't now. It might become a one in the future.

When? When do you realistically think this might become a majority without depopulating the Middle East and Africa?

Apart from Sharia not being what you might want to believe. Sharia at it's core is about settling border and property disputes by a mediator. Only a tiny part is punitive. But for obvious reasons our rightwingers only concentrate on the punitive part.

From wikipedia. You have the relevant sources included.

Sharia law is the law of Islam. [...]
The Sharia law itself cannot be altered, but the interpretation of the Sharia law, called "fiqh," by imams is given some leeway.
As a legal system, the Sharia law covers a very wide range of topics. While other legal codes deal primarily with public behavior, Sharia law covers public behavior, private behavior and private beliefs.

• According to the Sharia law and after due process and investigation:
  • Habitual theft past a specific threshold, and after repeated warnings, is punishable by amputation of a hand.
    
    
  • The punishment for adultery and fornication such that it becomes a public ordeal, according to the Holy Qur'an, is lashing. Before the revelation of these verses, Muhammad followed the Judaic law in implementing the punishment of death by stoning. This was only given if the person admitted to it repeatedly, was not intoxicated and knew the repercussions. Even then, if during the punishment he repented, he was to be released.
    

Laws and practices under Sharia
Marriage

• A Muslim woman can only marry a Muslim man and a Muslim man can only marry a Muslim or Ahl al-Kitāb . He/She cannot marry an atheist, agnostic or polytheist.[2]
  

Crime and punishment
Sharia recognizes three categories of crime:[3]

1. Hudud: crimes against God with fixed punishment.
   
   
2. Qisas: crimes against Muslims where equal retaliation is allowed.
   
   
3. Tazir: crimes against Muslims or non-Muslims where a Muslim judge uses his discretion in sentencing.
   

Hudud crimes are five:[4] theft, highway robbery, zina (illicit sex), sexual slander (accusing someone of zina but failing to produce four witnesses), and drinking alcohol
Sharia requires that there be four adult male Muslim witnesses to a hudud crime or a confession repeated four times, before someone can be punished for a Hudud crime.[4]
Murder, bodily injury and property damage - intentional or unintentional - is considered a civil dispute under sharia law.[5] The victim, victim's heir(s) or guardian is given the option to either forgive the murderer, demand Qisas (equal retaliation) or accept a compensation (Diyya) in lieu of the murder, bodily injury or property damage. Under sharia law, the Diyya compensation received by the victim or victim's family is in cash.[6][7]

The penalty for theft

Theft (stealing) is a hudud crime in sharia, with a fixed punishment. The punishment is cutting off the hand or feet of the thief.

The penalty for zinaEdit

Sharia law states that if either an unmarried man or an unmarried woman has pre-marital sex, the punishment should be 100 lashes.[8][9] There are some requirements that need to be met before this punishment can happen. For example, the punishment cannot happen unless the person confesses, or unless four eyewitnesses each saw, at the same time, the man and the woman in the action of illicit sex. Those who accuse someone of illicit sex but fail to produce four eyewitnesses are guilty of false accusation and their punishment is 80 lashes.[10] Maliki school of sharia considers pregnancy in an unmarried woman as sufficient evidence that she committed the hudud crime of zina.[11][12] The Hadiths consider homosexuality as zina.[13]

The penalty for apostasy

The punishment for apostasy is thought to be death by several schools of Muslim thought.
An example apostate was Hashem Aghajari, who was sentenced to death for apostasy in Iran (in 2002) after giving a controversial speech on reforming Islam. His sentence was reduced to 5 years in prison, but only after international and domestic outcry.

[Edwardo Piet]

Dear Vatican:

Shut the fuck up, and give that Ethiopian kid a sandwich.

Boru

Pope: "Of course my child...right after I shit in my golden toilet with a diamond crusted handle in a golden bathroom."