Oh, FFS...More Bullshit

[Minimalist]

http://truth-out.org/progressivepicks/it...olutionary

In the end, there are only two hard historical facts about Jesus of Nazareth upon which we can confidently rely: the first is that Jesus was a Jew who led a popular Jewish movement in Palestine at the beginning of the first century c.e.; the second is that Rome crucified him for doing so.

I would ask Aslan what the evidence is for these supposedly "hard, historical 'facts'" but I already know the answer. It all goes back to the gospel of mark and the later accounts which are embellishments of it. Those same accounts which Aslan now cherry-picks to ignore every thing else they say and pick out only what he wants to use.

There are no hard historical facts.... but there are books to sell.

[EvolutionKills]

http://truth-out.org/progressivepicks/it...olutionary

In the end, there are only two hard historical facts about Jesus of Nazareth upon which we can confidently rely: the first is that Jesus was a Jew who led a popular Jewish movement in Palestine at the beginning of the first century c.e.; the second is that Rome crucified him for doing so.

I would ask Aslan what the evidence is for these supposedly "hard, historical 'facts'" but I already know the answer. It all goes back to the gospel of mark and the later accounts which are embellishments of it. Those same accounts which Aslan now cherry-picks to ignore every thing else they say and pick out only what he wants to use.

There are no hard historical facts.... but there are books to sell.

Well Reza Aslan is a Muslim, so that's the least he can say to undermine Christianity without contradicting his own religion. Jesus needs to exist at a minimum because he's mentioned (in an attempt to undermine) by Mohamed in the Quran, where they're all like 'yeah, Jesus was just another prior prophet'.

[Minimalist]

What's Bart Ehrman's excuse? He wasn't a muslim.

[max-greece]

A popular Jewish movement? At the vital moment he didn't seem to be able to muster as much support as Barabas.

"Are you the Popular Front of Judea?"
"Fuck off. We're the Popular Judean Front. He's the Popular Front of Judea. Spliter!"

[Minimalist]

What have the Romans ever done for us?

[EvolutionKills]

What's Bart Ehrman's excuse? He wasn't a muslim.

An inability to go that far? Considering what a stark fundamentalist he started out as, Ehrman has made remarkable progress; he just seems to have hit an internal intellectual wall. Is it rational? No. Having read his exchanges with Carrier, I don't think he did himself and his position any favors. But as per Carrier's own recommendation, he can and does do good work; this just appears to be his own personal intellectual 'bridge too far'. So I appreciate the other work he's done (Jesus, Interrupted), and disagree with his other work that's not as sound (Did Jesus Exist?). In the same way that I can appreciate Ken Miller as a biologist and advocate for science and evolution, while disagreeing with his Catholicism and the ways he tries to square that circle.

[DeistPaladin]

http://truth-out.org/progressivepicks/it...olutionary

In the end, there are only two hard historical facts about Jesus of Nazareth upon which we can confidently rely: the first is that Jesus was a Jew who led a popular Jewish movement in Palestine at the beginning of the first century c.e.; the second is that Rome crucified him for doing so.

I would ask Aslan what the evidence is for these supposedly "hard, historical 'facts'" but I already know the answer. It all goes back to the gospel of mark and the later accounts which are embellishments of it. Those same accounts which Aslan now cherry-picks to ignore every thing else they say and pick out only what he wants to use.

There are no hard historical facts.... but there are books to sell.

I would like to ask Aslan if he could provide more details than "some kind of, you know, like popular movement and stuff. Um, you know, something something religion something something politics and stuff."

Sure, we can throw out the miracles and woo of the Gospels, which is a bit like telling the story of Superman but without any of the costume, super powers or being an alien from another world but other than all that, the same story. ...? OK, let that go for now.

Then we have to disregard all the hyperbole about just how earth shattering this political and religious movement was considering no one contemporary wrote about it. In fact, it's not until the 2nd century that anything surfaces (Tacitus) and even then it's so oblique that it doesn't even mention Jesus by name. So we reduce his ministry from "the greatest story ever told" to "some obscure wandering rabbi that only a select group paid any attention to".

And all the sayings and teachings become suspect because so much was added later and even the canonical stories contradict each other.

So what we're left with is some-guy-named-Yeshua-who-was-some-sort-of-religious-teacher-and-stuff. Yeshua was a common name. Messiah wannabes abounded. Jewish leaders crucified by Pilate weren't in short supply. If this is your definition of "The Historical Jesus" then you could likely find several that meet this description.

To quote Thomas Paine, "it may be so, and what then?"

[max-greece]

Why do I get the feeling that the most accurate portrayal of the events surrounding Brian's Jesus' life is actually The Life of Brian.

[Minimalist]

"Of course they brought forth juniper berries....they're juniper bushes."