Ask a Bible college Student

[chimp3]

I wonder if God instructed Moses to perform a pregnancy test on women that were adulterers or not virgins on their wedding night? Just to make sure they were not performing an abortion alongside a cruel and unjust execution.

[Catholic_Lady]

Catholic_Lady Wrote:

See, this is the interesting bit. I say the "left over" embryos from IVF need to be handled with more humanity, and get crap. Min comes in and says more babies should be aborted and no one bats an eye.

Because, dear, you are far too quick to tell other people how to live their lives.  I should not have to demonstrate to you by now that I don't give a rat's ass about yours (or any) religion.  This is a simple issue of you not minding your own business.  When you are getting up in the middle of the night changing shit-filled diapers or paying to put the little unwanted bastards through school then it becomes your business. 

Forcing women to have kids they don't want is simply oppression of women.,  I know your church is fine with that.... but I am not.

And yeah, the government should pay for it because it is much cheaper in the long run.

This has nothing to do with religion. Any atheist will say that someone doesn't need to believe in God to know that killing the innocent is wrong, and I agree 100%. That's why I have not needed to bring God into the equation at all in this discussion.  

I understand not wanting to be parents, but people know that sex makes babies. If 2 people choose to have unprotected sex, they are consenting to the very real possibility of creating new life. 

We must also not forget that adoption is always an option. And I don't need a man to tell me that pregnancy sucks because I know it first hand. While most women feel mildly sick for the first trimester, I was severely sick during the entire 5 1/2 months of my pregnancy. There were days where I was barely able to move. My mental health was declining as well because of this, and for the last month of my pregnancy the baby was diagnosed with severe IUGR and I spent that month pregnant with a baby who I knew would die inside me. For a whole month, I was sick and pregnant and knew I wasn't even going to get a baby out of it. So I get it. I get that pregnancy and adoption are hard.

And I get that people make mistakes, and this isn't about "punishment" for them. But when the consequences of your actions involve either having to be pregnant for 9 months, or killing the completely innocent bystander who had nothing to do with the situation he was put in, the former seems like the obvious answer. Pregnancy is temporary, death is not. 

Also, I think you are forgetting that having a kid can really change someone, should they choose to keep rather than adopt out. There are many many people who are beside themselves when they have an unwanted pregnancy, but then they go on to have the baby and end up loving them so much and never being able to imagine life without them. I'm sure there are infinitely more people who regret abortions than those who have the baby and wish they had aborted them instead. It's not like many people become parents without wanting to and then think "Oh gosh, I wish I had aborted my son/daughter. Now I'm forced to care for them."

[Minimalist]

This has nothing to do with religion.

Bullshit, dear.

[vorlon13]

This has nothing to do with religion.

Bullshit, dear.

Heresy does seem to be involved . . . .

[Minimalist]

Yeah - the fuckers have no position on it at all!

 


http://www.scarymommy.com/church-bulleti...crat-hell/

Church Gently Reminds Members They’re Going Straight To Hell If They Vote Democrat

And why?

Oh, yeah....the usual jesus freak horseshit.

In it, parishioners of the church (which also serves as an election day polling site) were informed that the policy positions of Democrats on abortion, same-sex marriage, euthanasia, human cloning, and embryonic stem cell research run counter to Catholicism and therefore voting for Democrats would sentence church-goers to eternal damnation. “It is a mortal sin to vote Democrat,” said the flier, “…immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell.”

[Catholic_Lady]

Yeah - the fuckers have no position on it at all!

 


http://www.scarymommy.com/church-bulleti...crat-hell/

Church Gently Reminds Members They’re Going Straight To Hell If They Vote Democrat

And why?

Oh, yeah....the usual jesus freak horseshit.

In it, parishioners of the church (which also serves as an election day polling site) were informed that the policy positions of Democrats on abortion, same-sex marriage, euthanasia, human cloning, and embryonic stem cell research run counter to Catholicism and therefore voting for Democrats would sentence church-goers to eternal damnation. “It is a mortal sin to vote Democrat,” said the flier, “…immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell.”

Killing is against our religion. But you don't have to be religious to think that killing is wrong. It's not an exclusively religious position, as I'm sure you agree.

[pocaracas]

Pregnancy is temporary, death is not. 

Pregnancy + parenting is for life, most of the time.

It's usually not the pregnancy alone that makes people choose to abort... it's what comes after.

Yes, people who cannot abort then usually go on to love their children, nonetheless. People try to make the best of their lives. Trying to take the best out of their circumstances.
It doesn't mean that, down deep, they don't realize that their lives could have been different, had they aborted. Different for the better or the worse, no one can really tell.
We only get one go in this life. There's no rehearsal, no trial, no time travel. We can't say how our lives could have been, had we done something different... way too many variables.

[Catholic_Lady]

Pregnancy is temporary, death is not. 

Pregnancy + parenting is for life, most of the time.

I was talking about adoption.

[pocaracas]

Pregnancy + parenting is for life, most of the time.

I was talking about adoption.

You would replace every present day abortion for kids up for adoption?
Tell me, how are the yearly abortion numbers in the US alone?

[Cyberman]

Well...that is KIND of what they do. The process of harvesting the eggs takes months and months, involving almost daily doctor's appointments, hormone replacements, and daily shots in order to stimulate the ovaries to produce a large enough number of eggs for potential conception. (My girlfriend got 16 eggs out of her first round, and those 16 eggs only yielded 5 viable embryos for transfer in the end.

And then they do it at a clip of like, 1-2 embryos per IVF transfer. So, my friend did 2, 2, and then 1, for a total of all five embryos over the course of three transfers. The nice thing is, the embryos are frozen so she could choose to do a transfer whenever she had the time. She is a school teacher and it was hard to get the time off of work for so many doc appts, so she did her transfers over the summer. And of course, just like any other pregnancy, you have to wait 3-4 weeks after each transfer to see if the embryo implanted, and if it didn't, you have to wait to get your period before moving on to the next one.

But as I said, the embryos are frozen and can be used at a woman's discretion, so I don't think as many embryos are typically getting "wasted" or "discarded" as you think. And a woman can always choose to donate her embryos if she decides she doesn't want to try anymore. My girlfriend considered using donor eggs after 3 failed IVF's. So, maybe it's not as wasteful of a process as you had thought?

P.s. I am not a fertility doctor. I am only relaying the experience of my friend. If I said anything factually or scientifically incorrect, please, someone with more knowledge on the subject, go ahead and correct me! [emoji39]

No, that's precisely how it works. Sam and I went through the ICSI procedure and were preparing to undergo it again after the first round failed to take. And that's the point; the doctors harvested a whole clutch of eggs, plus my sperm, in order to get two textbook embryos with the highest chance of viability. And they didn't take. The rest would have had even less of a chance by comparison - as in "no good". I'm not even factoring in the sheer waste of all those potential embryos that likely self-aborted or otherwise failed to implant during the natural course of our relationship.

And please don't anybody hint at "God's will" or "not meant to be" or some such ignorant platitude. Not unless you want to see me get violent. This is not a preaching opportunity.