The positive case for voting Hillary Clinton for president.

[Aroura]

My sentiments entirely. Well said. 

Still love you though, Whatevs.

To me it's like the difference between a deontologist and a consequentalist. Both have their hearts in thee right place. The former wants to stick to their principles whereas the latter is more concerned with positive consequences regardless of principles.

We're all good people here.

Well, except for those of us who are awful like Drich, but you get the point. The vast majority of us here have good intentions. And in life that's what matters most of all.

Well said.  I do get frustrated when people put their own principles ahead of real world consequences, particularly if those consequences would not affect them much.  It feels selfish.  I'm not saying it IS selfish, as I'm sure people can spin it around and point out how going against ones own principals to supposedly help others also has drawbacks.  But since I'm apparently more of a consequentialist, I have a hard time standing in the shows of people who put their feelings ahead of the tangible wellbeing of others.

That sounds harsh, and i don't mean for it to. As you say, we are all still good people.  I'm not sure how best to phrase it.

[Homeless Nutter]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67hVjTu5HKI

[Whateverist]

The Miami Herald has also endorsed her, while also ripping into Trump.

It is not about choosing between a bad candidate and a worse one. The narrative that Hillary Clinton is the lesser of two evils is patently wrong. Ms. Clinton is a pragmatic, tough-minded woman of accomplishment and political conviction with a demonstrated mastery of policy. She is politically flawed. However, Donald Trump is a damaged human being.

http://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/edito...45747.html

[The Grand Nudger]

Well said.  I do get frustrated when people put their own principles ahead of real world consequences, particularly if those consequences would not affect them much.

The real world consequences of -not- sticking to my principles is the downward spiral of presidential candidates that's given us the two turds we see before us.  We're getting what we deserve for our complacency and complicity. It;s important to note that I;m not holding out for the perfect canddate, or even close. Just a canddate that isn;t the scum of the fucking earth. If that;s too high a bar, we have bigger problems than -which- particular example of the scum of the earth sits in the oval office. We're just polishing brass on the titanic.

It feels selfish.  I'm not saying it IS selfish, as I'm sure people can spin it around and point out how going against ones own principals to supposedly help others also has drawbacks.  But since I'm apparently more of a consequentialist, I have a hard time standing in the shows of people who put their feelings ahead of the tangible wellbeing of others.

That sounds harsh, and i don't mean for it to. As you say, we are all still good people.  I'm not sure how best to phrase it.

I do have the wellbeing of others in mind..I won't be the source of credibility that our government leans on to give it's people a big, dry, shaft.  The public mandate, whatever that is, will not be -my- mandate. I won;t be the person who, for example, voted in the president who is against civil liberties when it suits them...and this comment...as much as each side thinks it only applies to the other guy....is true in both cases. I won;t be the person who voted n the president who, for example, sides wih corporations over the public when it suits them...and this comment...as much as each side thinks it only applies to the other guy....is true in both cases. I won't be the person who voted in the presdent who, fopr example, will say whatever ignorant shit they need to at any given moment when it suits them.......and this comment......as much as each side thinks it only applies to the other guy...is true in both cases.

To be perfectly honest, I exist in a segment of society that;s just about impervious to whomever may be in the whitehouse. I stand neither to lose nor gain from either candidacy. But electing either of these people will hurt some people, and in large part, the same people. It's just a matter of deciding who you're willing to give the shaft, either personally or by proxy, to. I've opted out this go round.

[Aroura]

The Miami Herald has also endorsed her, while also ripping into Trump.

It is not about choosing between a bad candidate and a worse one. The narrative that Hillary Clinton is the lesser of two evils is patently wrong. Ms. Clinton is a pragmatic, tough-minded woman of accomplishment and political conviction with a demonstrated mastery of policy. She is politically flawed. However, Donald Trump is a damaged human being.

http://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/edito...45747.html

Great article Whatev's, ty.

[Aroura]

Also, my husband doesn't vote at all, per his own convictions, so I'm not judging those who don't vote or who vote third party as bad people. But labeling both candidates as equally bad, or all that other hype you hear, shit sandwich and a punch in the face, etc, is just that, hype. None of the third party candidates are better (I've looked), and we have to live in the real world, not an imaginary one. The time to fight for change of the 2 party system isn't now. It's completely ineffective to do so. That fight needs to happened from the state up, not from the top down. Otherwise, it's just a lot of hot air that makes people feel better about themselves, but ultimately has no effect.

[The Valkyrie]

"The positive case for voting Hillary Clinton for president. "

She's not Trump.

[Aegon]

Also, my husband doesn't vote at all, per his own convictions, so I'm not judging those who don't vote or who vote third party as bad people. But labeling both candidates as equally bad, or all that other hype you hear, shit sandwich and a punch in the face, etc, is just that, hype.  None of the third party candidates are better (I've looked), and we have to live in the real world, not an imaginary one.  The time to fight for change of the 2 party system isn't now.  It's completely ineffective to do so.  That fight needs to happened from the state up, not from the top down.  Otherwise, it's just a lot of hot air that makes people feel better about themselves, but ultimately has no effect.

I'm pretty vocal on social media about my disdain for both Trump and Clinton, and often it's met with "WELL VOTE GARY JOHNSON BRO." But to be honest I'd rather have Trump or Clinton over that fucking idiot lol.

[The Grand Nudger]

Also, my husband doesn't vote at all, per his own convictions, so I'm not judging those who don't vote or who vote third party as bad people. But labeling both candidates as equally bad, or all that other hype you hear, shit sandwich and a punch in the face, etc, is just that, hype.  None of the third party candidates are better (I've looked), and we have to live in the real world, not an imaginary one.  The time to fight for change of the 2 party system isn't now.  It's completely ineffective to do so.  That fight needs to happened from the state up, not from the top down.  Otherwise, it's just a lot of hot air that makes people feel better about themselves, but ultimately has no effect.

They;re not equally bad, they're both bad in their very own ways...like snowflakes made of feces....each individual, no two alike. Sure, they both, sometimes, get up to the same sorts of things...but even then, they give it their own flare. To be completely fair, Hillary has a bit of an advantage, she;s been dong it longer....but I thik if Trump manages to survive this election and somehow stay in the public sector he;s gonna try his best to be every bit her equal when it comes to that sort of thing...and his performance out of the gate has been positively stellar.

Maybe next time one of the two major parties will prop up a candidate that's even remotely electable upon the basis of something other than who the other guy is. I'll be here..I'm not going anywhere. I certainly hope they will, either of them. But...you know what they say, hope in one hand, roll up a shitty snowball in the other...

[GrandizerII]

Also, my husband doesn't vote at all, per his own convictions, so I'm not judging those who don't vote or who vote third party as bad people. But labeling both candidates as equally bad, or all that other hype you hear, shit sandwich and a punch in the face, etc, is just that, hype.  None of the third party candidates are better (I've looked), and we have to live in the real world, not an imaginary one.  The time to fight for change of the 2 party system isn't now.  It's completely ineffective to do so.  That fight needs to happened from the state up, not from the top down.  Otherwise, it's just a lot of hot air that makes people feel better about themselves, but ultimately has no effect.

I'm pretty vocal on social media about my disdain for both Trump and Clinton, and often it's met with "WELL VOTE GARY JOHNSON BRO." But to be honest I'd rather have Trump or Clinton over that fucking idiot lol.

Honestly, I'm inclined to agree. I'd rather Trump than Gary Johnson. He's that bad.