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Thinking about converting, but what if I do go to Hell??...
#31
RE: Thinking about converting, but what if I do go to Hell??...
Quote:Alright, don't laugh now! I've been a Christian for over 10 years, but want to become an atheist. But how do I know that there is no Hell, that God has never spoken to me (I've had thoughts come into my mind that I don't think are my own), etc? Also, I've read a lot of books by people like Lee Strobel, and they seem pretty convincing evidence for the Bible and for the resurrection.

You are correct! There is a lot of evidence. Before you make this decision you should read Simply Christian by N.T Wright a brillant book (Wright is a leading Biblical scholar)

There is no hell. Hell was created by pagan Christians.
God hasnt spoken to me either, why would He?

Quote:But I have read Dawkins book "The God Delusion", and loved Sam Harris book "Letter to a Christian nation" and loved the latter!!
Dawkins fails as a philosopher but I did enjoy 'The God Delusion'
Quote:All I know is that the idea of a God and Hell and demons influencing people seems like nonsense to me now. So please help me out here with my doubts!

Remember, being an Atheist or a Theist isnt based on any concrete evidence its based mainly on subjective evidence. Saying, 'I dont believe that coul be real.' Is a subjective statement, its like me saying, 'I think C.S Lewis was an incredilbe writer.' So just becareful mate. Atheists attempt to prove they are more rational by using a lot of straw men and concluding there is probabally no God...
Its ok to have doubt, just dont let that doubt become the answers.

You dont hate God, you hate the church game.

"God is not what you imagine or what you think you understand. If you understand you have failed." Saint Augustine

Your mind works very simply: you are either trying to find out what are God's laws in order to follow them; or you are trying to outsmart Him. -Martin H. Fischer
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#32
RE: Thinking about converting, but what if I do go to Hell??...
Also be careful of people who present a wolf in sheep's clothing. Solja's point is well taken, but she has done much straw-manning herself on this forum and thread. Everyone will do it, you need to be prepared to analyze everything you hear with real scrutiny, reason, and logic, and make sure it concludes soundly with you.
My religion is the understanding of my world. My god is the energy that underlies it all. My worship is my constant endeavor to unravel the mysteries of my religion. Thinking
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#33
RE: Thinking about converting, but what if I do go to Hell??...
Quote:Unless there is any direct evidence for any of these Gods, there is no point in believing one way or the other.

Modern Atheists cling to the idea Rene Descartes is famous for, 'Skeptical about everything, untill one can prove it.'

But can anyone prove anything absolutely?

Can you prove to me that 2 + 2 = 4 and always will?

Perhaps one day 2 + 2 = 5. You cant say there isnt a chance.
One should also deny their existence, in this world, as there is no concrete evidence you exist in this world. We may all be faries at the bottom of the garden sleeping!
Quote:Also be careful of people who present a wolf in sheep's clothing. Solja's point is well taken, but she has done much straw-manning herself on this forum and thread. Everyone will do it, you need to be prepared to analyze everything you hear with real scrutiny, reason, and logic, and make sure it concludes soundly with you.

Everyone commits logical fallacies, at times.

However, when most Atheists enter the relam of theology, they commit the straw man fallacy, eg. 'I dont worship an invisible sky daddy.'
'faith is blind, to have evidence is contrary to faith.' These claims can appear to dismantle Theism, but they dont...
Although, I agree with you, dont believe what anyone says, research research research!
Its ok to have doubt, just dont let that doubt become the answers.

You dont hate God, you hate the church game.

"God is not what you imagine or what you think you understand. If you understand you have failed." Saint Augustine

Your mind works very simply: you are either trying to find out what are God's laws in order to follow them; or you are trying to outsmart Him. -Martin H. Fischer
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#34
RE: Thinking about converting, but what if I do go to Hell??...
(September 9, 2010 at 8:45 pm)solja247 Wrote:
Quote:Unless there is any direct evidence for any of these Gods, there is no point in believing one way or the other.

Modern Atheists cling to the idea Rene Descartes is famous for, 'Skeptical about everything, untill one can prove it.'

But can anyone prove anything absolutely?

Can you prove to me that 2 + 2 = 4 and always will?

Perhaps one day 2 + 2 = 5. You cant say there isnt a chance.
One should also deny their existence, in this world, as there is no concrete evidence you exist in this world. We may all be faries at the bottom of the garden sleeping!
Quote:Also be careful of people who present a wolf in sheep's clothing. Solja's point is well taken, but she has done much straw-manning herself on this forum and thread. Everyone will do it, you need to be prepared to analyze everything you hear with real scrutiny, reason, and logic, and make sure it concludes soundly with you.

Everyone commits logical fallacies, at times.

However, when most Atheists enter the relam of theology, they commit the straw man fallacy, eg. 'I dont worship an invisible sky daddy.'
'faith is blind, to have evidence is contrary to faith.' These claims can appear to dismantle Theism, but they dont...
Although, I agree with you, dont believe what anyone says, research research research!

Yes I can.... get ready for this one...it's a shocker
If I have 2 apples and you give me 2 apples.......I have 4 apples.
ROFLOL
Quote:"An individual has not started living until he can rise above the narrow confines of his individualistic concerns to the broader concerns of all humanity. "
Martin Luther King, Jr.
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#35
RE: Thinking about converting, but what if I do go to Hell??...
Quote:Yes I can.... get ready for this one...it's a shocker
If I have 2 apples and you give me 2 apples.......I have 4 apples.

Will it always equal 4? perhaps it will equal 5? There is still a possibility...
Its ok to have doubt, just dont let that doubt become the answers.

You dont hate God, you hate the church game.

"God is not what you imagine or what you think you understand. If you understand you have failed." Saint Augustine

Your mind works very simply: you are either trying to find out what are God's laws in order to follow them; or you are trying to outsmart Him. -Martin H. Fischer
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#36
RE: Thinking about converting, but what if I do go to Hell??...
whoops, sorry
Trudging through endless religion one step at a time.
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#37
RE: Thinking about converting, but what if I do go to Hell??...
(September 9, 2010 at 8:45 pm)solja247 Wrote: However, when most Atheists enter the relam of theology, they commit the straw man fallacy, eg. 'I dont worship an invisible sky daddy.'
'faith is blind, to have evidence is contrary to faith.' These claims can appear to dismantle Theism, but they dont...
Although, I agree with you, dont believe what anyone says, research research research!


first of all by definition, faith= belief without evidence. if there was evidence one wouldn't need faith.

actually that's what christians do. In arguements with theists (I've watched many an episode of "the atheist experience") this usually goes that at first theists try to present evidence (usually they try to portray the bible as evidence) and once that gets debunked they fall back to "ahah! I have faith can't touch that!" and indeed we can't, and indeed you loose the argument cause if your argument is "I have faith" then I can't really say anything that could on an intellectual level challenge that.

Quote:Can you prove to me that 2 + 2 = 4 and always will?

Contrary to the previous poster I DON"t think I can prove that. Indeed there are many situations where it might not equal 4 (like dreams or or even maybe universes with differing laws of logic). However, for the purposes of everyday life it's useful to take for granted/believe/etc that 2+2=4. However, the same cannot be said about the validity of the bible.
Have you found Jesus? If so read "the god dillusion"
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#38
RE: Thinking about converting, but what if I do go to Hell??...
(August 30, 2010 at 9:09 pm)dave4shmups Wrote: Alright, don't laugh now! I've been a Christian for over 10 years, but want to become an atheist. But how do I know that there is no Hell, that God has never spoken to me (I've had thoughts come into my mind that I don't think are my own), etc? Also, I've read a lot of books by people like Lee Strobel, and they seem pretty convincing evidence for the Bible and for the resurrection.

But I have read Dawkins book "The God Delusion", and loved Sam Harris book "Letter to a Christian nation" and loved the latter!!

All I know is that the idea of a God and Hell and demons influencing people seems like nonsense to me now. So please help me out here with my doubts!
Well, if this question bothers you, here's another thing to think about: What if Baal turned out to be real, and during the competition in 1 Kings 18, he really was on the john the whole time? (fun fact: apparently "travelling" was a popular euphemism for being on the crapper at the time) What if he was just as petty as Jehovah makes himself out to be in the Bible? The point is that you shouldn't let fear of possible punishments keep you from figuring out your beliefs for yourself.

Comparing the Universal Oneness of All Life to Yo Mama since 2010.

[Image: harmlesskitchen.png]

I was born with the gift of laughter and a sense the world is mad.
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#39
RE: Thinking about converting, but what if I do go to Hell??...
Quote:first of all by definition, faith= belief without evidence. if there was evidence one wouldn't need faith.

actually that's what christians do. In arguements with theists (I've watched many an episode of "the atheist experience") this usually goes that at first theists try to present evidence (usually they try to portray the bible as evidence) and once that gets debunked they fall back to "ahah! I have faith can't touch that!" and indeed we can't, and indeed you loose the argument cause if your argument is "I have faith" then I can't really say anything that could on an intellectual level challenge that.

Some theists believe in YEC it doesnt mean their arguements or beliefs are correct.
I believe there is enough objective and subjective evidence to believe in God. However, one still needs faith. I may be completely wrong and as Dawkin's book says, 'The God Delusion' it may be all a one big delusion. I have faith that God is real. I cant prove His existence or lack of existence, but I dont believe without evidence or have this 'blind faith', I did at once, but I dont anymore, I myself, have doubts about God still, BUT I believe in His existence...
Its ok to have doubt, just dont let that doubt become the answers.

You dont hate God, you hate the church game.

"God is not what you imagine or what you think you understand. If you understand you have failed." Saint Augustine

Your mind works very simply: you are either trying to find out what are God's laws in order to follow them; or you are trying to outsmart Him. -Martin H. Fischer
Reply
#40
RE: Thinking about converting, but what if I do go to Hell??...
Quote:But can anyone prove anything absolutely?


Certainly not you and your god tales.
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