Question about Evolution

[RiddledWithFear]

I know this is a stupid question, but bear with me here. This is not skepticism of any kind, but a mere question.

If a cause of natural selection is mutation, how would that work, if mutation is a random process? I'm stuck here. If natural selection is adaptation, then how could genetic mutation be a part in it if it's random? Thanks in advance.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Mutation is the raw material, natural selection acts upon mutation.

Suppose a fish is hatched with a mutation that provides ever-so-slightly better oxygen extraction.  The mutation itself is thoroughly random, but it provides a benefit that may make that particular fish better able to adapt and to breed than some of its cousins.  Since mutations occur at the genetic level, this new trait will be passed on to some of the mutated fish's young.  The fish that inherit this trait will be 'fitter' and more likely to survive and breed.  The mutation (random) has thus been selected for (non-random).

Good question.

Boru

[paulpablo]

I know this is a stupid question, but bear with me here. This is not skepticism of any kind, but a mere question.

If a cause of natural selection is mutation, how would that work, if mutation is a random process? I'm stuck here. If natural selection is adaptation, then how could genetic mutation be a part in it if it's random? Thanks in advance.

I'm no biologist, just to clear that up before I begin.

Off the top of my head natural selection isn't mutation.  Natural selection is simply the process that certain living things live, breed and pass on their genetics and others don't.  The genetic traits that caused the breeding/continued living were passed on.  The genetic traits that hindered breeding or survival aren't passed on because these living things died and didn't breed.

The mutation is what happens before the selection. It's not that the mutation is the selection that doesn't really make much sense in any way that I can see. 

The same with adaption.  There's no goal or direction in mutation.  The living beings that mutated a certain way that benefited their breeding or general survival, survived and bred better than those that didn't.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I know this is a stupid question, but bear with me here. This is not skepticism of any kind, but a mere question.

If a cause of natural selection is mutation, how would that work, if mutation is a random process? I'm stuck here. If natural selection is adaptation, then how could genetic mutation be a part in it if it's random? Thanks in advance.

Not all mutations are even noticeable, they don't harm the important parts of a body. But sometimes, not very often, but sometimes, they have an effect. Sometimes it's positive, sometimes negative. If it's positive and gives a slightly better chance of passing on an organism's genes. A positive mutation doesn't cause a large change in a organism, just a small one. Say a zebra gets a slightly better dazzle pattern. She gets more chances to pass along that mutation. It spreads among the host's population. Eventually all the population has it. Then it's just a wait for the next positive mutation. 

On the other hand, if a mutation causes a deer to be colored "Hunter's orange" he's a deader, because that's like a red cape to a fighting bull for hunters. 

[vorlon13]

Human beings have all the genetic machinery except one little piece for us to be able to make our own vitamin C. In fact rats and some other animals can.

Long ago, when our ancestors had access to plentiful citrus (or whatever else has vit C) that little mutation blipped our ability to make it 'in house' and it wasn't much of a negative mutation till sailors started taking long voyages and got scurvy, a disease caused by insufficient vitamin C in the diet.

[RiddledWithFear]

Mutation is the raw material, natural selection acts upon mutation.

Suppose a fish is hatched with a mutation that provides ever-so-slightly better oxygen extraction.  The mutation itself is thoroughly random, but it provides a benefit that may make that particular fish better able to adapt and to breed than some of its cousins.  Since mutations occur at the genetic level, this new trait will be passed on to some of the mutated fish's young.  The fish that inherit this trait will be 'fitter' and more likely to survive and breed.  The mutation (random) has thus been selected for (non-random).

Good question.

Boru

Thanks for the response! Makes a lot more sense now.

---

Mutation is the raw material, natural selection acts upon mutation.

Suppose a fish is hatched with a mutation that provides ever-so-slightly better oxygen extraction.  The mutation itself is thoroughly random, but it provides a benefit that may make that particular fish better able to adapt and to breed than some of its cousins.  Since mutations occur at the genetic level, this new trait will be passed on to some of the mutated fish's young.  The fish that inherit this trait will be 'fitter' and more likely to survive and breed.  The mutation (random) has thus been selected for (non-random).

Good question.

Boru

Thanks for the response! It makes a lot more sense to me now.

[ignoramus]

It's all rubbish I tell ya!

You're all gonna burn!
(if Trump doesn't get you first!)

[John V]

Mutation is the raw material, natural selection acts upon mutation.

Suppose a fish is hatched with a mutation that provides ever-so-slightly better oxygen extraction.  The mutation itself is thoroughly random, but it provides a benefit that may make that particular fish better able to adapt and to breed than some of its cousins.  Since mutations occur at the genetic level, this new trait will be passed on to some of the mutated fish's young.  The fish that inherit this trait will be 'fitter' and more likely to survive and breed.  The mutation (random) has thus been selected for (non-random).

Good question.

Boru

Good explanation, except for the "ever-so-slightly" part. Such a mutation would likely be lost in the shuffle.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Mutation is the raw material, natural selection acts upon mutation.

Suppose a fish is hatched with a mutation that provides ever-so-slightly better oxygen extraction.  The mutation itself is thoroughly random, but it provides a benefit that may make that particular fish better able to adapt and to breed than some of its cousins.  Since mutations occur at the genetic level, this new trait will be passed on to some of the mutated fish's young.  The fish that inherit this trait will be 'fitter' and more likely to survive and breed.  The mutation (random) has thus been selected for (non-random).

Good question.

Boru

Good explanation, except for the "ever-so-slightly" part. Such a mutation would likely be lost in the shuffle.

There are very few "bold strokes" known in evolution. "Small changes, Ellie, small changes."

[Whateverist]

Yeah, got to stop imagining it was a guppy just last week but now its a toad! That isn't evolution. That would be magic. Evolution is tiny strokes, many of them over lots and lots of time.