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Current time: 28th March 2017, 11:51

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Heated debate on evolution with brother
#1
Heated debate on evolution with brother
So, my older brother and I were were on a lengthy road trip tonight and we were having deep conversation along the way. He is significantly older than me and often talks to me in a sort of domineering and strident, though not necessarily rude fashion.

Now, my brother is smart in many ways. In fact, in many ways he's a genius. He's a very successful engineer who has led an impressive career and is very accomplished in life. But he is the type who is very attached to his own way of thinking and his own opinions.

Over the course of about four hours in the car we talked about all sorts of things such as politics, computer programming, etc. Everything went fine until I mentioned evolution. Then he kind of lost it. He kept saying that there's no evidence for evolution. That it was all bogus etc. I told him that, yes, in fact evolution is one of the clearest and most well understood things in science. He kept saying that he's never seen one piece of evidence that confirms evolution and that all of the fossils are fabricated. He kept asking why there are no animals currently changing forms, etc. He displayed utter ignorance of the entire concept. But there's just no getting through to him. He claimed that the scientists were trying to dismantle the Christian belief.

At that point I had to just withdraw. There was simply no getting through to him. He kept reiterating that he was open to the evidence, but that there is no evidence. The hostility he displayed was tremendous.

Any tips on good information sources to send him?
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#2
RE: Heated debate on evolution with brother
If all scientists in the world are conspiring against christianity then I don't think anything that a scientist says in any website or paper will convince him. Maybe you can point out to him that even the current pope admits to evolution, and see if you can get him to budge on "micro evolution".
[Image: 003.sig]
Quote:To know yet to think that one does not know is best; Not to know yet to think that one knows will lead to difficulty.
- Lau Tzu


Skype: aoi.magi
add me if you want to get annoyed by me personally Cool Shades

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#3
RE: Heated debate on evolution with brother
(3rd January 2017, 03:26)Aoi Magi Wrote: If all scientists in the world are conspiring against christianity then I don't think anything that a scientist says in any website or paper will convince him.
I thought the same thing. It really is frustrating.
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#4
RE: Heated debate on evolution with brother
Oh my good god.

Here's a place to start: http://www.talkorigins.org

As usual, he seems to not know the difference between "evolution" and "the theory of evolution". Evolution... is almost as obvious and apparent as gravity. Offspring are not identical to their parents, they exhibit variations based around their parents. Combined with natural selection, this moves norms in directions which are efficient for survival in the current environment. How anyone can not grasp this, I don't know. Evolution happens. What your brother is really saying is "we didn't evolve from apes". This is an entirely different statement. Also wrong, of course.

The theory of evolution is putting together the mechanisms for how it works, and then there is historical cataloging and such. These can always be challenged and improved upon, but these are where the evidence comes in. To claim there is no evidence for actual evolution is to simply deny reality.

I'll put up my video I did on this subject:



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#5
RE: Heated debate on evolution with brother
He apparently accepts that change has occurred. He's like "I see how dogs have changed over time, but I don't see dogs becoming cats."
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#6
RE: Heated debate on evolution with brother
Yeah. Change over time is evolution.

No one is claiming dogs turn into cats... this is one of the things I cover in my video above. Evolution occurs to a species over hundreds of thousands of generations, before you see noticeable changes. Individuals do not evolve, or give birth to different species.

(I put it in during an edit.)

"Dogs", "cats" and any other classifications are just ways of us making it easier for ourselves to identify things. Evolution occurs on a spectrum. Everything is a transitional form.

He needs to do some learning. Whether he's prepared to, is up to him. It's like you telling him Jesus doesn't exist because Jesus is a party hamper filled with invisible egg nog. Ignorance is no excuse.
Feel free to send me a private message.
Please visit my website here! It's got lots of information about atheism/theism and support for new atheists.

Index of useful threads and discussions
Index of my best videos
Quickstart guide to the forum
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#7
RE: Heated debate on evolution with brother
His thinking is screwed up beyond belief.
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#8
RE: Heated debate on evolution with brother
(3rd January 2017, 03:38)MyelinSheath Wrote: He apparently accepts that change has occurred. He's like "I see how dogs have changed over time, but I don't see dogs becoming cats."

Great, now explain to him that ignoratards call that process "micro evolution". And lots of micro together form "macro", as in, "macro evolution". If one accepts the first, there's no reason to logically deduce the second even if they disregard all the evidence staring right at them from almost all facets of science.

See how close dogs are already to cats:

[Image: noerihito.jpg]

[Image: londonfluffy.jpg]

Give a few million years to the cat ladies (or gene-editing be accessible), and even human babies might start to look like cats.
[Image: 003.sig]
Quote:To know yet to think that one does not know is best; Not to know yet to think that one knows will lead to difficulty.
- Lau Tzu


Skype: aoi.magi
add me if you want to get annoyed by me personally Cool Shades

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#9
RE: Heated debate on evolution with brother
I tried to offer him recommendations of books on evolution. He said it would depend on the author and who they were/what they stood for etc. as to whether or not he'd accept it. Erroneous reason, but I figured Francis Collins might be a good start. Any books by him you'd recommend?
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#10
RE: Heated debate on evolution with brother
If nothing else works, get a dozen or so trilobite fossils (you can find them fairly cheaply online), put them in a pillowcase and beat your brother soundly about the head and shoulders until he sees the light.

Boru
'There are people who long for immortality in the afterlife who don't know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon.' - Isaac Asimov
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