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January 18, 2017 at 1:42 am (This post was last modified: January 18, 2017 at 1:49 am by Huggy Bear.)
(January 18, 2017 at 1:25 am)Aroura Wrote: So if you are interacting with the spiritual realm while existing in this reality, it's part of this reality. Just like Wow is part of our reality.
But then again you have no evidence for communing with the so called spiritual realm. It's even more imaginative than wow, which at least actually exists.
You also assume I've never had a "supernatural" experience. I actually have. I've told the story before. When I was about 10, my brother was shot in the eye with a bba gun. Makes A CHRISTMAS Story a little more real for my family. Anyway, his retina was dislodged and the doctor told my folks that he would probably lose the sight in that eye. Still, on the off chance it might heal, the bandaged him up and sent him home where he had to lay in bed and not move his head hardly at all for ages.
That first night, well I had never seen my mother so distraught. I was Catholic, went to a private school and at that time honestly thought I might chose to be a nun when I grew up in loved them so much, I stayed up half the night praying and crying. I begged God not to take my brothers eye in the sincere way only a child can.
When I finally fell asleep I left my body and roamed the house. It was very, very real. There was a bright light as I rose up, and I thought God had sent an angel to take me in exchange for my brothers eye. I was so frightened, but I knew God was doing what was right. I floated through my house and saw my mom. I cried out to her, I wanted her to know how much I loved her before I was taken up to heaven. I was followed her around, both of us crying, but she couldn't hear my spirit.
The next morning I woke up, and thought God had decided my willingNess to sacrifice for my brother was enough, so let me stay. Still, I was more than a little frightened he'd change his mind. After about a week, the doc informed us my brothers retina had healed, and there was relief. I told my mom about my experience.....and she told me about sleep paralysis, she'd had more than one trauma or stress induced episode of it in her life, and knew what it was.
Aaanyway, I really did assume my experience was a real spiritual one when it happened, and if my mother had enabled that kind of thinking, I might still cling to that misunderstanding of my experience today. But I've had dozens more of these, along with other horrendous things religious folk often think are spiritual, including exploding head syndromeast.
All of these sorts of experiences can and do have rational, natural explanations. Some people just cling to their childhood myths harder than others.
*emphasis mine*
Sleep paralysis (which I used to experience quite frequently) is the precursor to an OBE...
How is having an out of body experience not a spiritual one?
(January 18, 2017 at 1:37 am)Cato Wrote:
(January 17, 2017 at 7:28 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: We perceive our world as "reality" even though 99.9 percent of it is empty space. As the saying goes, if you remove all that empty space, you would be able to compress all of humanity into the size of a sugar cube...
Huggy,
Please don't ever repeat this. It's simply bullshit. This is by no means a theist/atheist issue. In fact there are plenty of atheists mesmerized by the thought. It is however a science literacy issue.
People enamored by this apparent quandary should brush up on their knowledge of electromagnetism. Coulomb repulsion will satisfy most inquiries. Those delving deeper and wanting to know what happens as we try to squeeze two atoms together will then have to address Pauli's exclusion principle.
This of course ignores that matter is not mostly empty space to begin with. Some of this stems from the fact that many people still cling to how the Bohr model is used to teach young children the structure of the atom leaving the impression of electrons existing as tiny satellites orbiting the nucleus and all that empty space. In "reality", as you put it, that empty space is filled with electron wave functions.
I always love the sugar cube or teaspoon references when providing estimates for the total space occupied when only the actual partical dimensions are considered. Mildly amusing, no doubt, but then I'm quickly left with trying to comprehend the energy required to remove all the so called "empty space". For me, that's the real mind fuck.
January 18, 2017 at 3:09 am (This post was last modified: January 18, 2017 at 3:18 am by I_am_not_mafia.)
(January 17, 2017 at 7:28 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: WoW is real in so much that it has value and people can interact with it.
Which is why you believe in fairy tales and the rest of us believe in reality.
(January 17, 2017 at 7:28 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: If the creators of wow were able to imbue the any of the characters with free moral agency and self awareness, then that character would perceive that world as it's reality even though it's nothing more than computer code.
WoW is still part of the same physical system called reality that the rest of us inhabit. As I said earlier, your argument relies on equivocation. In this case what it means for something to be 'real'. WoW does not exist in a vacuum. It is part of a larger system called a society and an economy. You are placing arbitrary limits on one part of a system, defining it as a special case for no reason and using the fallacious argument of false equivalence. You do love your fallacious arguments don't you.
(January 18, 2017 at 1:42 am)Huggy74 Wrote: Sleep paralysis (which I used to experience quite frequently) is the precursor to an OBE...
How is having an out of body experience not a spiritual one?
The point being that all your spiritual experiences are only 'spiritual' because your brain has told you that it is.
A simpler explanation, is that your brain is misinterpreting what is happening. Aroura's example demonstrates this. She thought it was spiritual. It was actually sleep paralysis. This is a known phenomenon. It can be demonstrated. There is no need to go any further than a physical explanation. There is no evidence suggesting that we should.
Neo you're a crybaby. I probably would've stole your girlfriend in high school then beat you up when you tried to fight me over it.
Or took your chocolate milk at lunch every. I like chocolate milk.
What is the point of this thread?
Also, don't take my comments about high school too seriously. I'm more of a strawberry milk kind of guy.
“Love is the only bow on Life’s dark cloud. It is the morning and the evening star. It shines upon the babe, and sheds its radiance on the quiet tomb. It is the mother of art, inspirer of poet, patriot and philosopher.
It is the air and light of every heart – builder of every home, kindler of every fire on every hearth. It was the first to dream of immortality. It fills the world with melody – for music is the voice of love.
Love is the magician, the enchanter, that changes worthless things to Joy, and makes royal kings and queens of common clay. It is the perfume of that wondrous flower, the heart, and without that sacred passion, that divine swoon, we are less than beasts; but with it, earth is heaven, and we are gods.” - Robert. G. Ingersoll
January 18, 2017 at 5:16 am (This post was last modified: January 18, 2017 at 5:21 am by Aroura.)
@huggy, it's not a spiritual experience, it's fully explainable without the supernatural. I've had an obe, did you read the part about leaving my body?
I mean, it's certainly cool, and I feel kinda privileged to have had a lot sleep paralysis episodes in my life, though only the one obe. It is fully amazing what the human mind and body are capable of. In the sense that it is an amazing bit of nature, like watching a sunset, it is certainly that level of spiritual, but not supernatural spiritual.
Also, I shouldn't have been so insulting about adult fairy tales, I'm sorry I said that. I am lucky in that I was given the tools early on to break the pattern of magical thinking, but I shouldn't deride those who do not have that toolset. Since I don't believe in free will either, I know you do not chose your beliefs.
(January 18, 2017 at 5:11 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: lol, a girlfriend is an "it"?
LMFAO!!!!!
Didn't mean it like that I meant fight me over the situation, which would be the "it"
or are you just being a silly goose
“Love is the only bow on Life’s dark cloud. It is the morning and the evening star. It shines upon the babe, and sheds its radiance on the quiet tomb. It is the mother of art, inspirer of poet, patriot and philosopher.
It is the air and light of every heart – builder of every home, kindler of every fire on every hearth. It was the first to dream of immortality. It fills the world with melody – for music is the voice of love.
Love is the magician, the enchanter, that changes worthless things to Joy, and makes royal kings and queens of common clay. It is the perfume of that wondrous flower, the heart, and without that sacred passion, that divine swoon, we are less than beasts; but with it, earth is heaven, and we are gods.” - Robert. G. Ingersoll
(January 18, 2017 at 1:42 am)Huggy74 Wrote: How is having an out of body experience not a spiritual one?
+++ALERT+++BURDEN OF PROOF SHIFT DETECTED+++
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
Joke's on you. Did you ignore Krauss around second '47? The bit where he says empty space is filled? They are using the words 'empty space', but are telling you that the space isn't really empty. The clip also explains why your assertion was wrong, yet you offer it as evidence for your mistaken claim.
The other thing going on is that they are dumbing it down for the masses. If I asked them for the scientific use of 'empty space' they would reply with something along the lines of an unexcited area in a vacuum state and would in fact concede that the space you are talking about is not empty.
I was polite in an attempt to help you understand something better, but you doubled down by posting a video you also didn't fully nderstand.
(January 17, 2017 at 6:35 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: So you're going to argue with a damn dictionary/thesaurus?
Balaco is a fucking dictionary??? I knew there was something off with him, but I had no idea he was a damned book!
Did I give any definitions? Did I quote any dictionary or any thesaurus? Or did I give a real-life example to show that common usage is not as you say?
But yeah, I can argue with a dictionary for you. Mind if I borrow yours? I'll use your dictionary.com link to look up both words.
Belief:
1.
something believed; an opinion or conviction:
a belief that the earth is flat.
2.
confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof:
a statement unworthy of belief.
3.
confidence; faith; trust:
a child's belief in his parents.
4.
a religious tenet or tenets; religious creed or faith:
the Christian belief.
Faith:
1.
confidence or trust in a person or thing:
faith in another's ability.
2.
belief that is not based on proof:
He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.
3.
belief in God or in the doctrines or teachings of religion:
the firm faith of the Pilgrims.
4.
belief in anything, as a code of ethics, standards of merit, etc.:
to be of the same faith with someone concerning honesty.
5.
a system of religious belief:
the Christian faith; the Jewish faith.
6.
the obligation of loyalty or fidelity to a person, promise, engagement, etc.:
Failure to appear would be breaking faith.
7.
the observance of this obligation; fidelity to one's promise, oath, allegiance, etc.:
Let's see here. Belief....one, two, three, four... Faith...one, two, three, four, five? Six?? SEVEN??? Four isn't seven! Maybe I'm misunderstanding what "no difference" means. Should I look up the words "no" and "difference" for you next? Because I see quite a difference here. Maybe I'm stupid. I'm sure that's probably it. But it just doesn't look to me like there is "no difference" between one word with 4 definitions and another with 7.
I stop reading when people start to bicker about the semantics.
(January 18, 2017 at 9:58 am)Neo-Scholastic Wrote:
(January 17, 2017 at 7:22 pm)Asmodee Wrote: Balaco is a fucking dictionary??? I knew there was something off with him, but I had no idea he was a damned book!
Did I give any definitions? Did I quote any dictionary or any thesaurus? Or did I give a real-life example to show that common usage is not as you say?
But yeah, I can argue with a dictionary for you. Mind if I borrow yours? I'll use your dictionary.com link to look up both words.
Belief:
1.
something believed; an opinion or conviction:
a belief that the earth is flat.
2.
confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof:
a statement unworthy of belief.
3.
confidence; faith; trust:
a child's belief in his parents.
4.
a religious tenet or tenets; religious creed or faith:
the Christian belief.
Faith:
1.
confidence or trust in a person or thing:
faith in another's ability.
2.
belief that is not based on proof:
He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.
3.
belief in God or in the doctrines or teachings of religion:
the firm faith of the Pilgrims.
4.
belief in anything, as a code of ethics, standards of merit, etc.:
to be of the same faith with someone concerning honesty.
5.
a system of religious belief:
the Christian faith; the Jewish faith.
6.
the obligation of loyalty or fidelity to a person, promise, engagement, etc.:
Failure to appear would be breaking faith.
7.
the observance of this obligation; fidelity to one's promise, oath, allegiance, etc.:
Let's see here. Belief....one, two, three, four... Faith...one, two, three, four, five? Six?? SEVEN??? Four isn't seven! Maybe I'm misunderstanding what "no difference" means. Should I look up the words "no" and "difference" for you next? Because I see quite a difference here. Maybe I'm stupid. I'm sure that's probably it. But it just doesn't look to me like there is "no difference" between one word with 4 definitions and another with 7.
I stop reading when people start to bicker about the semantics.
Yeesh, you must hate ProgrammingGod's posts then.
In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.
- Thomas Jefferson