I have a soul hence I exist.

[tackattack]

It wasn't an experiment, I don't think we're aloud to kill people just to see if they'll come back to life.. it was several accounts from news articles with sources I briefly (read as barely) checked. I think he was out (no brain wave activity or blood circulation) for a few hours then died again in a few days for good. Also there are many instances of "mind over matter" using the mind to overcome physical challenges that influenced the brain, thus releasing the proper chemical cocktail to achieve the feat. There's a new show out hosted by Stan Lee on superhuman abilities. The stimuli can come from abstract thought, your actions influence your thoughts and vice-versa, but none of that accounts for the basest for of identity.

[The_Flying_Skeptic]

It wasn't an experiment, I don't think we're aloud to kill people just to see if they'll come back to life.. it was several accounts from news articles with sources I briefly (read as barely) checked. I think he was out (no brain wave activity or blood circulation) for a few hours then died again in a few days for good. Also there are many instances of "mind over matter" using the mind to overcome physical challenges that influenced the brain, thus releasing the proper chemical cocktail to achieve the feat. There's a new show out hosted by Stan Lee on superhuman abilities. The stimuli can come from abstract thought, your actions influence your thoughts and vice-versa, but none of that accounts for the basest for of identity.

Don't be silly (nobody likes a smart-ass); however, you could be referring to experiments done during medieval times. I was using 'experiment' loosely as documented phenomena. The experiment is important enough that you're using it as evidence for the soul so you should know the names of the people involved in this experiment for the sake of my God forsaken soul . "Your actions influence your thoughts." I'm trying to make sense of actions influencing thoughts; I truly am with no luck. Maybe you can help me understand or maybe you'll realize that the idea of actions influencing thoughts is senseless too. The closest I can come to actions influencing thoughts making sense is maybe cognitive therapy where people condition themselves to think positively about whatever input (whether the input [stimuli] is social or physical) yet I can see the whole process as thoughts influencing thoughts.

The word thought alone is abstract enough that describing thought as abstract seems superfluous to me. I believe thought is a response to stimuli and without stimuli there is no thought. what do you think? furthermore, I believe that without a nervous system or a system that responds to stimuli, there is no thought. I guess we're back where we started.

[tackattack]

I like smart-asses but anyways, no this isn't as circular an argument as you're proposing, I don't think. I'll give you thought influences thought.
Let's break it down to the practical example. The brain release endorphins and manages the nervous system right? I think we also have a mutual understanding of mind as it applies here. If you electrically stimulate the brain it can produce euphoric experiences, if you use mind altering drugs it can too etc. Preforming a lobotomy affects memory, etc. All of those are manipulating the brain to adjust the mind. You could poke someone with a knife and they would be in pain. They're brain would then recognize it needs some chemicals produced and would handle the problem. The mind would interpret all of the inputs and come up with the abstract idea that it got stabbed and it hurts. That would be an example of physiology affecting mind through the brain. You can't reason actions influencing thought? Here's one: You decide you're hungry(thought) and fix yourself something to eat (action). You accidentally burn yourself which triggers a pain response (brain). Now you learn that stoves are hot and you should be more careful (thought). Clearly in the chain an action caused a change in thought pattern which is the mind. Now let's see examples of mind altering physiology through the brain:
1.positive thinking, positive affirmation and self-coaching- all good ways to alter thoughts to have the brain release chemicals.
2.irrational fear response. -ie. being afraid of heights causes serious physiological problems with no real stimuli other than thought
3.intent plays a big role in the outcome of of an event
Those are just a few examples of thought influencing the brain to do something different than it's doing. No amount of influence from mind or brain or external stimuli seems to be able to remove the "I" portion of identity, yet. What I'm proposing is that this basest level of self is stored in or is a soul. It would have to be immaterial because it's intangible. It has to be independent of the brain, since it survives brain death, therefore I wouldn't group it with abstract thought. I hope this sheds a little light on my perspective.

[The_Flying_Skeptic]

if you damage enough of the brain, there is no way to know if this person recognizes his or her own identity.

[tackattack]

correct, which is why I'm talking about cessation of brain activity.

[The_Flying_Skeptic]

correct, which is why I'm talking about cessation of brain activity.

how is cessation of brain activity caused without damaging the brain?

[tackattack]

the person was brain dead and no pulmonary activity..I don't remember for how long but I don't think it was longer then a few hours.. then they were alive again... and conscious..presumably asked for something.. like could I get a glass of water.. or something then 3-5 hours later or whatever they went into a coma and died again .. for good.

[The_Flying_Skeptic]

the person was brain dead and no pulmonary activity..I don't remember for how long but I don't think it was longer then a few hours.. then they were alive again... and conscious..presumably asked for something.. like could I get a glass of water.. or something then 3-5 hours later or whatever they went into a coma and died again .. for good.

After hours of not getting any oxygen to the brain, you'd think the guy was a goner. Almost sounds like something Ambrose Bierce would write in his The Devil's Dictionary:

GNOME, n.
In North-European mythology, a dwarfish imp inhabiting the interior parts of the earth and having special custody of mineral treasures. Bjorsen, who died in 1765, says gnomes were common enough in the southern parts of Sweden in his boyhood, and he frequently saw them scampering on the hills in the evening twilight. Ludwig Binkerhoof saw three as recently as 1792, in the Black Forest, and Sneddeker avers that in 1803 they drove a party of miners out of a Silesian mine. Basing our computations upon data supplied by these statements, we find that the gnomes were probably extinct as early as 1764.