Question about death to Atheists.

[Mirek-Polska]

Hi again.

On my last post about Near Death experiences, I received some interesting and insightful responses. I want to thank everyone who gave me an answer for that. The question I am about to ask may seem as though it is slightly biased. However, if you can, please slightly make an exception and look past the bias 

So at my church, I recently talked to an older woman who told me that while she was in the hospital with her husband (who was terminally ill), she held his hand. She said that while he was lying in his hospital bed, that she saw some white looking entity leaving his body. She said it almost looked like his physical body was a shell, and out of the shell came this white, transparent 'spirit' form of him. She said that soon afterwards doctors had examined him, and reported that he was in fact dead. I could tell that this lady was being sincere in what she was telling me. Later that day I got home, and found a multitude of different stories which were similar to hers. 

At first I thought, maybe it is just a coincidence, then I remembered something else:

My mom has repeatedly had this phenomenon where she will wake up one morning feeling "strange", she will say that she dreamed about a loved one, and that she knows something bad happened to this person. About 10-15 times, it has happened where she will get a call very soon in the next day or two saying that a person she knows (usually the person she dreamed about) has died. 

Now, these two phenomenons that I touched on will likely be dismissed by most, but I want to know, how can some atheists on here be so sure that there is nothing after death when there are so many unexplained things? Although some people may be lying to get attention, I am sure that the two examples I gave were not lies. Even if that means there is another explanation we do not know about. How would you atheists react to some of these things if you were to give the claimer the benefit of the doubt that he/she was not lying?

[chimp3]

They do not have to be liars to be delusional. Nor do they have to be delusional to put faith in optical illusions. What ever gets people through the night is fine with me as long as they keep their beliefs out of domains that my tax dollars pay for. The last thing I want to do is take peoples toys away from them.

[The Valkyrie]

As someone who has worked in A&Es and other facilities, and have sat with people while they were dying, I can tell you that neither I, nor any colleagues I have worked with have ever encountered such a phenomenon.

It's easy, even for someone who has never encountered it before, to know when someone has died. Yes, there are cases of mistakes being made, but usually death is plain. I would put this down to a dream or, perhaps, wishful thinking. There is no medical or scientific evidence that I'm aware of to back up such "visions".

To the other, I can't say. I have experienced such a thing personally before (last year when my favourite cousin died). I can't explain it but I won't accept that it has a supernatural origin without support for that claim.

Even if it is supernatural, that doesn't prove any particular god or religion.

[Minimalist]

About 10-15 times, it has happened where she will get a call very soon in the next day or two saying that a person she knows (usually the person she dreamed about) has died.

And how many times has she thought of someone who didn't die?

Never forget the wise words of Julius Caesar:

[Mirek-Polska]

As someone who has worked in A&Es and other facilities, and have sat with people while they were dying, I can tell you that neither I, nor any colleagues I have worked with have ever encountered such a phenomenon.

It's easy, even for someone who has never encountered it before, to know when someone has died.  Yes, there are cases of mistakes being made, but usually death is plain.  I would put this down to a dream or, perhaps, wishful thinking.  There is no medical or scientific evidence that I'm aware of to back up such "visions".

To the other, I can't say.  I have experienced such a thing personally before (last year when my favourite cousin died).  I can't explain it but I won't accept that it has a supernatural origin without support for that claim.

Even if it is supernatural, that doesn't prove any particular god or religion.

"Even if it is supernatural, that doesn't prove any particular god or religion."
If you found out that we did in fact have a soul, or that these phenomenons were somehow true, would you still dismiss NDEs?

[ignoramus]

Mirek. I'm just happy that you're even asking for alternative explanations...
It means you have a somewhat open mind...


Again, one mIraculous thing proven true by science will lead to a Pandoras box and a paradigm shift in the way we view the world... Science will change its views accordingly, I assure you. There in no coverups with science.

Checkout the quantum double slit experiment ... It's been driving scientists crazy for a century. But the answer is still "we don't know". What this has taught us is that our world is not as we think it is on the surface ... All sceptics are of and open mind... It's good that you are too.... But sometimes people need to be comforted with nice thoughts ...Religion is good for that... Nobody like to think that death is permanent, especially when a loved one passes.

[chimp3]

As someone who has worked in A&Es and other facilities, and have sat with people while they were dying, I can tell you that neither I, nor any colleagues I have worked with have ever encountered such a phenomenon.

It's easy, even for someone who has never encountered it before, to know when someone has died.  Yes, there are cases of mistakes being made, but usually death is plain.  I would put this down to a dream or, perhaps, wishful thinking.  There is no medical or scientific evidence that I'm aware of to back up such "visions".

To the other, I can't say.  I have experienced such a thing personally before (last year when my favourite cousin died).  I can't explain it but I won't accept that it has a supernatural origin without support for that claim.

Even if it is supernatural, that doesn't prove any particular god or religion.

In 25 years working in hospitals and long term care I have seen many, many people take their last breath. Never saw anythng unusual. I have read many accounts of witnesses using the dying processes of others to promote their agendas though.

[The Valkyrie]

As someone who has worked in A&Es and other facilities, and have sat with people while they were dying, I can tell you that neither I, nor any colleagues I have worked with have ever encountered such a phenomenon.

It's easy, even for someone who has never encountered it before, to know when someone has died.  Yes, there are cases of mistakes being made, but usually death is plain.  I would put this down to a dream or, perhaps, wishful thinking.  There is no medical or scientific evidence that I'm aware of to back up such "visions".

To the other, I can't say.  I have experienced such a thing personally before (last year when my favourite cousin died).  I can't explain it but I won't accept that it has a supernatural origin without support for that claim.

Even if it is supernatural, that doesn't prove any particular god or religion.

"Even if it is supernatural, that doesn't prove any particular god or religion."
If you found out that we did in fact have a soul, or that these phenomenons were somehow true, would you still dismiss NDEs?

Certainly 99% of them.

For those who use the argument of the "dead" person floating above their bodies and "seeing" things they couldn't possibly have seen/heard I will point out that while we consciously see and note many things, we unconsciously see and absorb many more.

There was a case (I'll see if I can find it) where during a "past life regression" someone spoke in great detail of life aboard an old ship and described being badly wounded by cannon fire and, finally, succumbing to the wounds.  They used some VERY obscure naval terms that they should not have known - given their background - and even spoke in an accent they had, supposedly, never encountered before.

After much questioning and research, it was found that the person had read a book regarding old maritime battles, including the harrowing case of a sailor who was killed in a battle.  The patient's subconscious mind absorbed the story and brought it back up when under hypnosis.

[Cyberman]

If you found out that we did in fact have a soul, or that these phenomenons were somehow true, would you still dismiss NDEs?

The bolded part is what needs to happen first. You have the floor.

[J a c k]

What would be the god's purpose in giving your mom a strange feeling before she gets the news? It's like my son when he recommends a movie for me to watch and the whole time he gets satisfaction by telling me before the good parts, "Oh! Watch what happens here!" Makes him excited to show off that he knows something I don't about the movie. Is that what your god is doing?
Does he tell your mom how to stop the death from happening, and if so, does he explain why he needs her to intervene?

I could simply answer that not having an explanation for things that people claim happen does not mean there is an afterlife or a god, but I don't want to stop there. I want to suppose it's all indeed divine intervention. Why? For kicks? I'm interested in knowing how this would influence you. He lets your mom in on a secret that cousin Louie died, but ignores the cries for help from the child being tortured in the back of a bus.

How do you embrace that?