What is Atheism?

[mlmooney89]

I'm confused isn't the lack of a belief in a God and not believing in a God the same thing? You ask the question is there a god aren't both of them going to say no? And if one says there could be a God doesn't that turn it into agnostic?

[Aegon]

I've seen so many debates online trying to differentiate between these two definitions and I honestly don't really care. They say the same thing, I think.

[Mister Agenda]

Some would say atheism is the belief that there is no God and saying otherwise is trying to get rid of any burden of proof. Of course, you know exactly who says that.

Judging by the results of your poll, no one here.

There's one now...bet it's not hard to guess who put it.

[Whateverist]

I'm confused isn't the lack of a belief in a God and not believing in a God the same thing? You ask the question is there a god aren't both of them going to say no? And if one says there could be a God doesn't that turn it into agnostic?

I think to say "there is no god" implies you know just what they mean and in fact have sufficient evidence to establish it isn't true.  I don't know just what they are claiming this god-thing is so I don't know how one would know if it does or doesn't exist.  So I don't make any claims at all about gods, but that doesn't stop me from reporting on my beliefs.  No I don't believe in 'x' whatever they think this may be.

[mlmooney89]

I'm confused isn't the lack of a belief in a God and not believing in a God the same thing? You ask the question is there a god aren't both of them going to say no? And if one says there could be a God doesn't that turn it into agnostic?

I think to say "there is no god" implies you know just what they mean and in fact have sufficient evidence to establish it isn't true.  I don't know just what they are claiming this god-thing is so I don't know how one would know if it does or doesn't exist.  So I don't make any claims at all about gods, but that doesn't stop me from reporting on my beliefs.  No I don't believe in 'x' whatever they think this may be.

I'm sorry but that doesn't make any sense to me. It sounds like you are saying you don't know if gods really exist but then turn around and say they don't. I'm not criticizing I just don't understand. To me it's very black and white- either gods exists or they don't. I say they don't so I'm an atheist. I have no belief in them and when reworded I lack a belief in them.

[Whateverist]

I think to say "there is no god" implies you know just what they mean and in fact have sufficient evidence to establish it isn't true.  I don't know just what they are claiming this god-thing is so I don't know how one would know if it does or doesn't exist.  So I don't make any claims at all about gods, but that doesn't stop me from reporting on my beliefs.  No I don't believe in 'x' whatever they think this may be.

I'm sorry but that doesn't make any sense to me. It sounds like you are saying you don't know if gods really exist but then turn around and say they don't. I'm not criticizing I just don't understand. To me it's very black and white- either gods exists or they don't. I say they don't so I'm an atheist. I have no belief in them and when reworded I lack a belief in them.

But how exactly are you determining that?  What is the sure, tell tale signs of a god's presence?  What do we know about the nature of gods which is uncontroversial by which we can reach a conclusion?  I've got nothing.  

I'm saying that based on the xtian idea that god created all and has nothing better to do than to stand in judgement of one simian species on our planet, no I don't believe that.  But I have no positive evidence that it isn't so, do you?  I mean how can we when they go to such lengths to put the thing out of reach of reason and science in something they call the supernatural zone.  This is mumbo jumbo and undeserving of serious consideration.

[SteveII]

I think to say "there is no god" implies you know just what they mean and in fact have sufficient evidence to establish it isn't true.  I don't know just what they are claiming this god-thing is so I don't know how one would know if it does or doesn't exist.  So I don't make any claims at all about gods, but that doesn't stop me from reporting on my beliefs.  No I don't believe in 'x' whatever they think this may be.

I'm sorry but that doesn't make any sense to me. It sounds like you are saying you don't know if gods really exist but then turn around and say they don't. I'm not criticizing I just don't understand. To me it's very black and white- either gods exists or they don't. I say they don't so I'm an atheist. I have no belief in them and when reworded I lack a belief in them.

It's a word game about burden of proof. Atheist think that if it's simply a "lack of belief", they don't shoulder any intellectual burden of proof for their belief. 

With that logic, babies are atheists because they "lack a belief". The fact is, all atheists have an opinion on whether any god exists or not.

[Whateverist]

I'm sorry but that doesn't make any sense to me. It sounds like you are saying you don't know if gods really exist but then turn around and say they don't. I'm not criticizing I just don't understand. To me it's very black and white- either gods exists or they don't. I say they don't so I'm an atheist. I have no belief in them and when reworded I lack a belief in them.

It's a word game about burden of proof. Atheist think that if it's simply a "lack of belief", they don't shoulder any intellectual burden of proof for their belief.

But it isn't a positive claim. I make no claims regarding the undefined term 'gods' because I know nothing about them. I know that the descriptions of those who do claim to know gods do not agree.

No one requires a permit not to believe in claims regarding poorly defined absurdities.

With that logic, babies are atheists because they "lack a belief".

But they are atheists until they become programmed to believe, they don't. They are thus non-believers. Of course the kinds of things about which it is possible for them to form a belief will change over time. But by the time they are old enough to formulate a belief regarding gods, their communities will already have already instilled that belief.

The fact is, all atheists have an opinion on whether any god exists or not.

Yes, my opinion is that it is silly nonsense. The phenomenon of god belief does reveal something interesting about the nature of human consciousness, but that has nothing to do with whether or not any particular concretization of that instinct is true. None of them are literally true. But of course none of this means anything to you because you are encased in a belief filter.

[mlmooney89]

I'm sorry but that doesn't make any sense to me. It sounds like you are saying you don't know if gods really exist but then turn around and say they don't. I'm not criticizing I just don't understand. To me it's very black and white- either gods exists or they don't. I say they don't so I'm an atheist. I have no belief in them and when reworded I lack a belief in them.

But how exactly are you determining that?  What is the sure, tell tale signs of a god's presence?  What do we know about the nature of gods which is uncontroversial by which we can reach a conclusion?  I've got nothing.  

I'm saying that based on the xtian idea that god created all and has nothing better to do than to stand in judgement of one simian species on our planet, no I don't believe that.  But I have no positive evidence that it isn't so, do you?  I mean how can we when they go to such lengths to put the thing out of reach of reason and science in something they call the supernatural zone.  This is mumbo jumbo and undeserving of serious consideration.

But that's just agnostic means! This is where I am confused. "a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena" If you don't know then shouldn't you just be agnostic? Me knowing gods don't exist isn't any different than Christian's 'knowing' one does. But I still have full confidence in saying magic isn't real therefore gods aren't as well. "a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods." Wouldn't how you see it fall more under agnostic and not atheist just because you haven't found a god to believe in?

[Whateverist]

But that's just agnostic means! This is where I am confused. "a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena" If you don't know then shouldn't you just be agnostic? Me knowing gods don't exist isn't any different than Christian's 'knowing' one does. But I still have full confidence in saying magic isn't real therefore gods aren't as well. "a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods." Wouldn't how you see it fall more under agnostic and not atheist just because you haven't found a god to believe in?

Definitely I am agnostic, but that has nothing to do with being unable to decide whether or not gods exist. I simply recognize that I'm in no position to know everything. Lacking a complete list of everything there is in the universe I can't say that something going by the name 'god' exists the way someone is defining it. The terms are so poorly defined that nothing conclusive is possible.

But that doesn't mean I'm stuck believing maybe gods exist. I'm as certain as any anti-theist that they do not exist as beings in themselves who conjure up universes and manufacture people and morals and heavens and hells and the rest of it. But can I offer any evidence, something binding on any rational thinking adult? Nope and neither can anyone else.

That doesn't mean I can't decide. I have decided my opinion is that people who make claims regarding 'gods' are mistaken and that the 'gods' they believe in are aspects of their own consciousness and nothing more. (That is a nicer and more specific way of saying gods are figments of their imagination.)