Is this fair?

[paulpablo]

There could be an advantage in parts of the bone structure that doesn't change via hormone therapy.

It's not completely laughable to think this person may have some sort of biological advantage, they beat the closest competitor by 45 pounds in the article I'm reading.

And apparently this person didn't win competitions as a man when competing against other men either.

This is something Joe Rogan talks a lot about in the subject of MMA.  The hand size, bone structure and the anchorage, leverage and support a mans body has in comparison to women.

[Aoi Magi]

Surgically changing gender isn't always advantageous, and even if there is an advantage in this particular case, it really isn't fair to assume that it is impossible for a natural born woman to match that.

[paulpablo]

Surgically changing gender isn't always advantageous, and even if there is an advantage in this particular case, it really isn't fair to assume that it is impossible for a natural born woman to match that.

This person has definitely put themself at a disadvantage in the action of lifting in itself.  They probably can't lift the weight they used to if hormone therapy is acting on them the way it is supposed to as far as I can tell.

The advantage is simply gaining competitive prowess because they're in a different competition now, they're against men instead of women. 

When this person competed against men apparently they weren't dominating events like they are doing now against women.  Unless the article I was reading was misleading about that.

That's not to say no woman could ever beat her either though.  That's just where it gets more complicated because women who are born women can be born with abormalities when it comes to bone structure and hormones.  It's not that this person has an advantage and is now therefore better than all women.
It's that they might be considered to have an advantage in the sense they weren't competing aswell before as they are now, now they're competing against women.

I'm very honest myself when it comes to physical competitions when I'm against other people.  If I was a transexual and I wasn't winning much as a man then suddenly won lots as a woman against women I don't think I could hold my head up high after winning because I'd be at least considering the fact that I might be at an unfair advantage.

[Aoi Magi]

Well yeh, and that is for the person and the sports committee to decide. However, from my perspective this situation is quite similar to when a boxer drops down two or more weight brackets. A heavyweight dropping to fly-weight might seem like giving them a huge advantage but the sharp drop in weight kinda balances it out.

[paulpablo]

Well yeh, and that is for the person and the sports committee to decide. However, from my perspective this situation is quite similar to when a boxer drops down two or more weight brackets. A heavyweight dropping to fly-weight might seem like giving them a huge advantage but the sharp drop in weight kinda balances it out.

I was going to use that similarity of dropping weight in my last post but deleted it.  Although I think a heavy weight dropping to fly weight might result in death in a lot of cases.

The situation is what it is.  We won't know how well this person would have competed or if they even would have competed had they been born a girl.

What we have is someone who's born a man, gone through puberty and developed the bone structure and size of a man.  They didn't perform with seemingly much recognition as a man against other men and then had some hormone treatment and competed against women and they did great and beat all their competition. 

I don't know if that's technically fair or even what fair is, I know if I was the woman who got silver, bronze or the woman who came 4th I'd be annoyed with the situation though.

[Rhondazvous]

I'm not familiar with how this works. Is it possible to bring a transgender person's testosterone level down? If so, then she has no unfair advantage. It's all about the hormones that make a man physically stronger than a woman (generally speaking, exceptions not withstanding).

[paulpablo]

I'm not familiar with how this works. Is it possible to bring a transgender person's  testosterone level down? If so, then she has no unfair advantage. It's all about the hormones that make a man physically stronger than a woman (generally speaking, exceptions not withstanding).

I'm no expert, but I think it's oversimplistic to state that you know there is no unfair advantage and that you know it's definitely all about the hormones.

In people who have a sex change later in life once puberty is complete there's definite attributes that are known which don't change just due to hormones. 

The skeletal structure for example, and therefore also height and arm length.  Also hand size.  Not just these things, the human body is very complex, there's probably a huge number of things.

[Jesster]

Both you and Alex are dodging the issue.

Not really

We have always accepted that some people are naturally more gifted in certain areas than others, not just sports. What we are seeing now is a man made advantage through technological innovation.

What advantage? Hormone replacement therapy does a number on that so-called advantage. Trust me on this one. I've gone through it.

If you feel like Alex that sports are pointless, then neither of you should even be discussing this as it is... pointless.  

I don't think that sports are pointless, but I thought I thought this topic was pointless until others made a huge deal out of it. I didn't bring it up. I just responded.

The implication that no limit on the height of basketball payers for instance, is no different than allowing an athlete to add man made performance enhancing drugs/devices to his/her body is a silly argument.  I get that you think it boils down to "life's not fair so who cares how someone gets an advantage" but that is simply ridiculous. I bet you don't take that view in any other area?

Except this doesn't compare at all. Players will get kicked out for trying to use steroid enhancements for sure. Transitioning from male to female with hormone replacement is the exact opposite. Are you expecting them to compete with men at this point? Or should transgender people never be allowed to compete in anything athletic?

[The Grand Nudger]

So, since we can't maintain that mtf trans have bigger muscles and suchlike, we're going with "man bones stronk"?

Unless the limbs of the other competitors were snapping under the weight of the barbells............

Look, fellas..there isn't a problem. There really have been studies done on this. There's a reason that trans aren't crushing everyone in every sport all the time ....which they would be, if being trans was the advantage you imagine it to be. We throw a tissy when one of them wins something..and forget that they're -constantly- losing. The weightlifter in question..for example, had competed and lost in the years since her transition.

What happened there?

[Jesster]

Yeah, these complaints only happen when someone wins. I guess trans athletes can compete as long as they only shoot for 2nd best.

I'd also like to see what happens when a cis woman with a larger bone structure competes. Those do exist, you know. Do we toss them out, too?