What are the Characteristics of a NT Christian?

[Neo-Scholastic]

“For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” — Matthew 5:18-19

“It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid.” (Luke 16:17)

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place.” (Matthew 5:17)

“Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law” (John7:19)

You, like every other apologist, are redacting the bible in your mind and expecting that to "prove" your version is the correct version.

See the parts I put in bold. "All the things that took place" were foretold of Jesus and "fulfilled" when He "accomplished" it on the Cross. Chew on that for a while.

[SteveII]

No, it's really not cherry picking. The NT was all God's revelation up to the time of Christ--culminating with the birth, life, teaching, death and resurrection of God incarnate. It then provided a new framework (unlike the OT framework) whereby we could have a relationship with God and provides detailed instructions on living. 

Yes, it really is cherry picking as you leave out the parts you don't like but that Jesus himself did like. See below.

What point/justification/meaning do you think you have by going back a 1300 years before Christ to pull in some stories that were written down 600-700 years after the events and this somehow changes Christ's message on how to relate to God and live your life? It seems you are spouting atheist bullet points but don't quite know when to use them.

I attended private Catholic school until I was 19 years old and some of my instructors were priests. I know the bible and below you will find the justification as stated by Jesus.

“For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” — Matthew 5:18-19

“It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid.” (Luke 16:17)

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place.” (Matthew 5:17)

“Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law” (John7:19)

You, like every other apologist, are redacting the bible in your mind and expecting that to "prove" your version is the correct version. As I told you already, this mental redaction you engage in does not mean that we can all safely ignore the murderous parts and murderous past of Christianity.

LOL, of course you are a Bible scholar--you went to Catholic school--until you were 19! I don't feel like debating someone of your stature so I am going to give you a link that explains my position good enough. http://www.ukapologetics.net/Jesusandthelaw.html

[vorlon13]

If the New Testament Christians are doing it correctly, we will be able to tell because:

15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 17And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. 19So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. 20And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.


Maybe the government could set up testing centers ??

[Brian37]

Yes, it really is cherry picking as you leave out the parts you don't like but that Jesus himself did like. See below.


I attended private Catholic school until I was 19 years old and some of my instructors were priests. I know the bible and below you will find the justification as stated by Jesus.



You, like every other apologist, are redacting the bible in your mind and expecting that to "prove" your version is the correct version. As I told you already, this mental redaction you engage in does not mean that we can all safely ignore the murderous parts and murderous past of Christianity.

LOL, of course you are a Bible scholar--you went to Catholic school--until you were 19! I don't feel like debating someone of your stature so I am going to give you a link that explains my position good enough. http://www.ukapologetics.net/Jesusandthelaw.html

We wouldn't care if you were a Koran scholar, or a Torah/Talmud scholar, Buddha scholar, Hindu Baghavad Gita/Veda scholar, and don't act like the KJV is the only version of the bible in any case.

You, "I am a Star Trek Fan"

Us, "Yea yea yea, and others are Star Wars Fans, and others are Harry Potter Fans".

Exactly what are you an "expert" in?

I am sure there are plenty of Harry Potter fans who can recite every line of every book and can tell you the plot of every book, but would that prove Harry Potter to be a real being?

Being an apologist doesn't mean a thing. There are tons of humans who make apologies for other religions whom think you got it wrong and they got it right.

[Harry Nevis]

You, like every other apologist, are redacting the bible in your mind and expecting that to "prove" your version is the correct version.

See the parts I put in bold. "All the things that took place" were foretold of Jesus and "fulfilled" when He "accomplished" it on the Cross. Chew on that for a while.

So "all" really means one or two things?  Other christians have said it means everything until the second coming.  Wish you guys could get your stories straight.

[SteveII]

If the New Testament Christians are doing it correctly, we will be able to tell because:

15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 17And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. 19So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. 20And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.


Maybe the government could set up testing centers ??

And guess what, the apostles (the people he was talking to) were able to do those things . Read Acts.

[Brian37]

If the New Testament Christians are doing it correctly, we will be able to tell because:

15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 17And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. 19So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. 20And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.


Maybe the government could set up testing centers ??

And guess what, the apostles (the people he was talking to) were able to do those things . Read Acts.

Yea yea yea, you love Superman got it, and others love Batman and others love Yoda.

Sorry buddy, but none of the NT was written during the alleged time the bible claims the Jesus character existed. Second hand hearsay written after the fact. If an underdog upstart had been really pissing off Jews and the Romans we would see evidence DURING that alleged time the bible claims outside the bible. The NT was written BACKWARDS in time to suit the agenda of the writers. 

It is a common tactic in ALL religions who splinter from an old one to incorporate ideas and figures and people into the new movement after the fact do draw readers away from the old religions.

None of the NT proves in any scientific sense that a baby can be born without a second set of DNA who spends his life with magic super powers only to die having all the blood drained out of his body, to suffer complete organ and brain death, only to magically survive rigor mortis. Now do not try  to claim that either the birth story or death story really happened because that is flat out bullshit. 

Ideas of hero god/s who save the world were not invented by Christianity. Rising into heaven also was not invented by Christianity. The Ancient Egyptians also had their hero god Horus who was born to save the world, who also ascended into heaven to sit next to his dad Osiris under the head god Ra in judgment of humans.

I am sorry someone sold you that old book of myth, but that is all it is.

[Neo-Scholastic]

Other christians have said it means everything until the second coming.  Wish you guys could get your stories straight.

So according to you people are allowed to express different opinions about everything from cellular biology to the the next day's weather but when it comes to religion 2.2 billion people must be in lock-step agreement about the meaning of one particularly difficult prophecy. If that is your objection to the Christian faith then I would invite you to reexamine your expectations and reflect on your motivations for applying this double standard.

Anyway, that passage, which comes from Luke, is in the context of the destruction of the Temple of Jerusalem, the center of Jewish ritual worship, which as Jesus predicted in that passage was indeed destroyed during the generation to whom He was speaking. Elsewhere Christ specifically referred to Himself as the new Temple which was to become the center of worship.

If you are interested in doing a quick topical study, you might want to grab your concordance and take note of how people used the word, 'word', in various places across the entire canon. You will come to see that it very often refers to the authority or promise of the speaker, like when people give their 'word'. Or as in "In the "Beginning was the Word" because God's promise and authority are eternal. So when Jesus says "my words will not pass away" He is also referring to His divine authority and the promise of salvation in Him, the imperishable Temple.

I would also point out that none of this exegesis contradicts that to which SteveII linked. Scripture is rich and profoundly satisfying on multiple levels. There is something that speaks to the common reader and many rewards for deep study. Bobby Fischer once said that the game of Chess was greater than any player. How much more so for the Word of God!

[Mister Agenda]

They only need to be in lockstep about things they're claim they are consistent on. If you say cellular biologists agree on X and X isn't settled at all, then you can't really say that agreeing on X is a characteristic of cellular biologists, can you? In fact, there are very few things 90% of Christians agree on, and that's fine, until you start saying things like 'true Christians do or believe X' and it knocks out a significant portion of people who are counted as Christians on the census. It's reasonable to question how representative that 'Christians do this' statement is.

Someone up thread said something to the effect that Christianity is the Bible. That isn't actually the case. Like every other religion, Christianity is the people its composed of. Christians determine what Christianity is, and if they have a big change of heart about something concerning their religion en masse, Christianity changes with them.

[Brian37]

Other christians have said it means everything until the second coming.  Wish you guys could get your stories straight.

So according to you people are allowed to express different opinions about everything from cellular biology to the the next day's weather but when it comes to religion 2.2 billion people must be in lock-step agreement about the meaning of one particularly difficult prophecy. If that is your objection to the Christian faith then I would invite you to reexamine your expectations and reflect on your motivations for applying this double standard.

Anyway, that passage, which comes from Luke, is in the context of the destruction of the Temple of Jerusalem, the center of Jewish ritual worship, which as Jesus predicted in that passage was indeed destroyed during the generation to whom He was speaking. Elsewhere Christ specifically referred to Himself as the new Temple which was to become the center of worship.

If you are interested in doing a quick topical study, you might want to grab your concordance and take note of how people used the word, 'word', in various places across the entire canon. You will come to see that it very often refers to the authority or promise of the speaker, like when people give their 'word'. Or as in "In the "Beginning was the Word" because God's promise and authority are eternal. So when Jesus says "my words will not pass away" He is also referring to His divine authority and the promise of salvation in Him, the imperishable Temple.

I would also point out that none of this exegesis contradicts that to which SteveII linked. Scripture is rich and profoundly satisfying on multiple levels. There is something that speaks to the common reader and many rewards for deep study. Bobby Fischer once said that the game of Chess was greater than any player. How much more so for the Word of God!

NO not merely 2.2 billion, see there you go again thinking we single out 1 religion. Most of our planet's 7 billion belong to a religion. Your religion is merely 1 of many, get over yourself.

ALL religions as umbrella labels have the same problem of having sub sects who do not agree on the "correct" interpretation or who to follow or how to follow. There is NOT one religion, not yours, not any in the world or in human history that does not have this flaw.

No we don't expect you to all be on the same page from any government law standpoint no. But as far as logic yes. If any religion could prove universal it would be very simple to prove the facts in a neutral setting with control groups and independent peer review.

So yea, Baptists and Catholics and Protestants and Quakers and Mormons ect ect ect don't have their stories on the same page, just like Sunnis and Shiites cant agree, just like a Tibet Buddhist wont agree with a Chinese Buddhist whom wont agree with a Japanese Shinto Buddhist.

But please if you do anything, stop crying foul and playing victim. There are religiously persecuted in the world yes, you are NOT one of them. Kurdish Christians and minority Muslims and gays murdered by Isis are persecuted. You having your claims challenged in the west where you don't have to live in fear of death does not make you a victim. 

Get over yourself.