Mindfulness - help?

[energizer bunny]

A lot of what is described as meditation or mindfulness appears to be more about avoidance rather than awareness. 

 But up to that point, there are numerous ways one can cope with pain and uncomfortability with mindfulness. It just depends on the situation, and you really do have to find the most effective technique from many, for you. There are basic ones that always work though. Distraction is one. Pinch your earlobe with your nail and you won't feel the needle while getting blood drawn, for instance. 
  

I would say television and music are faaar better ways to distract yourself than mindfulness. Maybe i'm misunderstanding. Seems like you're talking about distracting yourself from one thing to avoid another. Biting your finger to avoid feeling the pain in stomach. Not much different than distracting yourself with one activity after another to avoid feeling the pain inside.

[Aroura]

Radical acceptance is anything but avoidance.

But for people unable to stop worrying about something they cant do anything about anyway, or angry about something they cannot change, this teaches people how to stop dwelling.

It's learning when to think on and accept things, and when and more crucially how, to let them go while still accepting them.
You should read up on the psycology of ot before being so dismissive.  

If that works for you, great. My comment is a general observation not a direct comment towards anyone. Like shifting your mind towards something else rather than face what's inside you.

These techniques are for people suffering from obsessive worry, anger, and so forth. Obsessive behavior requires redirecting, as theyve already faced it for like 70 hours, now they need to learn to stop.

[energizer bunny]

A lot of what is described as meditation or mindfulness appears to be more about avoidance rather than awareness. 

So the way I think of mindfulness is to try and be aware of your mental state... anger, worry etc and make a decision on whether you want it or not. Given that you only have so many moments of life, you have a choice what to do with them, and if you recognise a futile mental state that only brings you down... like anger or worry about a situation you can't change... you can choose to let them go and let go of whatever keeps them going... such as feelings of pride or whatever in an argument... for the greater good.

Well yes, i would assume the point of mindfulness is to make one more aware of their mental state. Whether a person chooses to indulge or distance themselves is up to them.

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While I realize this was not intended towards me, or anyone in particular and that you might be right - I don't know, I'm only interested in this practice for the purposes of my personal recovery - I wanted to take this opportunity to explain better why I'm doing this. The reason I got interested in it was one of my sources mentioning it being used in therapy for people in my situation and I do see how it is helpful. 

As you said, I have faced what I needed to face. The problem is that oftentimes, my mind will remind me of it again and again, every day, in the least preferable circumstances. What I need mindfulness for is grounding myself in the present moment, precisely so I can face the past better. Instead of getting lost in it, I can remind myself where I'm standing whenever it rears its ugly head again, so I can look it in the eye without fear. That's what this is for, to me. 

Thank you guys again. Cake for everyone 

Well good luck facing whatever it is your going through.  

I was in a depressive state not long ago and the way through it was to stop resisting it. To turn towards it not away from it. Fear is something i need to work with as well but i seem to be resisting it. What i resist, persist.

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If that works for you, great. My comment is a general observation not a direct comment towards anyone. Like shifting your mind towards something else rather than face what's inside you.

These techniques are for people suffering from obsessive worry, anger, and so forth. Obsessive behavior requires redirecting, as theyve already faced it for like 70 hours, now they need to learn to stop.

I've never had obsessive behavior so i wouldn't know. I'll take your word for it.

[Thumpalumpacus]

To me, mindfulness is not about resistance. It's about stepping away from my feelings so that I can address them more objectively. Note that that means I'm not avoiding my feelings, just making sure I have them in perspective before making any decisions based upon them.

I use a couple of different tools for getting there.

Mindfulness has been a powerful tool in my struggle with alcoholism, precisely because it is about addressing my feelings rather than anaesthetizing them.

[Aroura]

To me, mindfulness is not about resistance. It's about stepping away from my feelings so that I can address them more objectively. Note that that means I'm not avoiding my feelings, just making sure I have them in perspective before making any decisions based upon them.

I use a couple of different tools for getting there.

Mindfulness has been a powerful tool in my struggle with alcoholism, precisely because it is about addressing my feelings rather than anaesthetizing them.

That's a perfect explanation, thank you!

Edited to add, this is the same as for people using it to reduce obsessive.  It's like picking at a scab.  That does not help it heal.  You have to address the wound, but correctly.  Not obsessively, and not by ignoring it. 

You always have a more eloquent way of stating things.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I think it's important to remember what Jormungandr wrote above, that we all experience it in different manners and ways.

[emjay]

To me, mindfulness is not about resistance. It's about stepping away from my feelings so that I can address them more objectively. Note that that means I'm not avoiding my feelings, just making sure I have them in perspective before making any decisions based upon them.

I use a couple of different tools for getting there.

Mindfulness has been a powerful tool in my struggle with alcoholism, precisely because it is about addressing my feelings rather than anaesthetizing them.

Say it's anger... does that mean you co-exist with it as you explore it... even while in the throes of the emotion? Cos that's always seemed like a contradiction in terms to me... that the deeper you are in such a state... such as anger where it's characterised by tunnel vision and bias... the less mindful of it you can be... ie the less objectively aware you can be of it.

That's always confused me about mindfulness... just that once you get lost in a train of thought or whatever that is almost by definition the opposite of being objectively aware of it. So I see mindfulness only operating in objective mode as it were... seeing the beginnings or ends of thoughts, but not the during (unless you snap out of it mid-train and thus become objectively aware). Do you see it differently?

[Thumpalumpacus]

To me, mindfulness is not about resistance. It's about stepping away from my feelings so that I can address them more objectively. Note that that means I'm not avoiding my feelings, just making sure I have them in perspective before making any decisions based upon them.

I use a couple of different tools for getting there.

Mindfulness has been a powerful tool in my struggle with alcoholism, precisely because it is about addressing my feelings rather than anaesthetizing them.

Say it's anger... does that mean you co-exist with it as you explore it... even while in the throes of the emotion? Cos that's always seemed like a contradiction in terms to me... that the deeper you are in such a state... such as anger where it's characterised by tunnel vision and bias... the less mindful of it you can be... ie the less objectively aware you can be of it.

That's always confused me about mindfulness... just that once you get lost in a train of thought or whatever that is almost by definition the opposite of being objectively aware of it. So I see mindfulness only operating in objective mode as it were... seeing the beginnings or ends of thoughts, but not the during (unless you snap out of it mid-train and thus become objectively aware). Do you see it differently?

I have a couple of exercises I use when I feel myself falling into an overly emotional state that I don't want to experience.

Sometimes I'll imagine the emotion as a transient object -- a log floating downstream, a jet flying high overhead -- and it gets closer and then recedes. This reminds me that, knowing it is transient, I also know that it will recede so long as I don't impede the process.

Sometimes I make a "date" with the problem: "I'm a bit worked up/busy/whatever to deal with this now, so I'll think about this at 8:30pm tonight." And by the time that rolls around, the emotion has passed through me.

Sometimes, when I'm upset about something that is beyond my control, I remind myself of that fact and simply work to reduce my emotional investment if possible.

It's not that I don't allow myself to experience the feelings. I just don't allow myself to make decisions in a state of emotional disturbance. And for me, these techniques most often accelerate that process of detachment by reminding me that emotions too have limits, and I'm best staying away from those limits.

[emjay]

Say it's anger... does that mean you co-exist with it as you explore it... even while in the throes of the emotion? Cos that's always seemed like a contradiction in terms to me... that the deeper you are in such a state... such as anger where it's characterised by tunnel vision and bias... the less mindful of it you can be... ie the less objectively aware you can be of it.

That's always confused me about mindfulness... just that once you get lost in a train of thought or whatever that is almost by definition the opposite of being objectively aware of it. So I see mindfulness only operating in objective mode as it were... seeing the beginnings or ends of thoughts, but not the during (unless you snap out of it mid-train and thus become objectively aware). Do you see it differently?

I have a couple of exercises I use when I feel myself falling into an overly emotional state that I don't want to experience.

Sometimes I'll imagine the emotion as a transient object -- a log floating downstream, a jet flying high overhead -- and it gets closer and then recedes. This reminds me that, knowing it is transient, I also know that it will recede so long as I don't impede the process.

Sometimes I make a "date" with the problem: "I'm a bit worked up/busy/whatever to deal with this now, so I'll think about this at 8:30pm tonight." And by the time that rolls around, the emotion has passed through me.

Sometimes, when I'm upset about something that is beyond my control, I remind myself of that fact and simply work to reduce my emotional investment if possible.

It's not that I don't allow myself to experience the feelings. I just don't allow myself to make decisions in a state of emotional disturbance. And for me, these techniques most often accelerate that process of detachment by reminding me that emotions too have limits, and I'm best staying away from those limits.

I was just asking mainly to see if we were doing the same sort of thing... and I think we are at some level... but you have a lot more techniques than me... I don't really have/use techniques per se, it's just an approach to thinking... so with me I think it's more casual. I don't use it all the time... it comes and goes really in phases of interest (in Buddhism etc)... and thus I can get out of it for a while... then the stress etc starts building up whilst I'm not thinking like that until something reminds me to think like it (such as some futile situation) and I get back into it again... in cycles basically. I wish I did do it all the time though because I'm much happier and more peaceful when I do (and conversely depressed/stressed etc when I don't). Thankfully I'm in the mindful mode at the moment and hope to keep it there

[Thumpalumpacus]

I think we're looking at the mountain from two different vantage points, sure. It's still the same mountain, I reckon.

What mindfulness I practice is on the practical level, and I don't have an overarching scheme to it. I've just grabbed some tools for my toolbox from folks who are deeper into it. And as with you, it helps keep my emotions centered and balanced. When I don't practice mindfulness, I can get to be quite a mess.

But whatever gets you through the night, it's alright, no?