The First Century Void

[RoadRunner79]

As for Justyn the Martyr, that may be explained by both his background and his audience. 

Yes, apologists always come up with shitty, ad-hoc explanations.  Congratulations for continuing the trend.

The church put out a story  - probably in the late 2d century - that "paul" brought the faith to the gentiles in the mid first century.  That would make him an important sonofabitch... right up there with the other (most likely fictional) apostles.  But Justyn, sitting in his ass in Rome over 100 years later doesn't know fuckall about him.  He knows Marcion, though. 

I'm afraid you will have to try harder.

I don't have to try harder.  It's your argument, and a plausible explanation as to why a particular writer did not mention something is all that is needed to defeat the argument from silence.  It's your burden to support your assertion. Just because Justin doesn't mention Paul, doesn't mean that he doesn't know of him.   This is why Wiki classified this a weak form of argument.  As well, I showed you that there are many other early Christian writers, who did quote from Paul; so even if, your fallacious reasoning was correct; your premise is shown to be false.  Again, you want to focus on just one person (or piece of evidence) but ignore the larger group, which doesn't support your case.  

I notice, that you neither addressed the reasoning I have provided, nor the information I gave.   You simply attack the person, the origins of the critique and double down on your assertion.  Should I hear volumes in your silence?

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Not clear to me that Christians should want more hard copy/documentation from that early era.  Don't they have enough problems as it is with Apostle Paul countermanding Jesus and hijacking the movement?

How can more information about that clusterfuck help ??

More information is always better.... As per the topic of this thread, people with wild imaginations, tend to fill the gaps of any lack of information and confuse that with facts.  Hence the argument from silence is a favored tactic by village atheists!

[vorlon13]

Well . . .

more supporting evidence of the Infancy Gospel of Thomas is going to rankle some churchy folks hackles . . .

[RoadRunner79]

Well . . .

more supporting evidence of the Infancy Gospel of Thomas is going to rankle some churchy folks hackles . . .

I'm sure it would.  And any new evidence needs to be regarded in light of it's weight and in respect to the other evidence we have.  But more information is always good, towards finding the truth of the matter.  Likewise ignoring the evidence we have, in place of a feeling about some silence; isn't good either.

[vorlon13]

when have the religious folks been interested in truth ?


If they were, they'd be doing pelvic exams before letting women in their churches.

[vorlon13]

and if they were really up on snagging a demon, they might want to do a pelvic exam on me . . .

[RoadRunner79]

when have the religious folks been interested in truth ?


If they were, they'd be doing pelvic exams before letting women in their churches.

Well that's out of left field....  While I think you have some misunderstandings in what you put forth, I'm not gong to get into that, as it doesn't concern the historicity brought up in this discussion. 

(edit to add)  If you are allowed, to lump all Christians together, then am I allowed to do the same, and regard all atheist by their worst examples.   C'mon... I think where better than that!

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and if they were really up on snagging a demon, they might want to do a pelvic exam on me . . .

No Thank you!

[vorlon13]

Jesus proclaimed His truth was to fulfill the 'Law', an inconvenient detail from Apostle Paul's time onwards till today. Still, in 2000 years no one has seen fit to update Leviticus, probably because the gay stuff is still so very very useful, but once the churchy folks invoke one of the 607 edicts there, my truth is that they be obedient to all of them.

And that includes the prohibition against letting menstuators in the sanctuary on Sunday . .


er . . .

Saturday . . .



uh,


OK, Friday sunset to Saturday sunset. Think I got it right finally . . . .

[Minimalist]

Not clear to me that Christians should want more hard copy/documentation from that early era.  Don't they have enough problems as it is with Apostle Paul countermanding Jesus and hijacking the movement?

How can more information about that clusterfuck help ??

They are simply positive that there are first century writings out there.... in spite of the fact that it was largely the church itself, and the church in the middle ages not the early church, which determined what was saved and what was lost or simply not re-copied.  There was no grand conspiracy here.  If something was favorable to their cause they preserved it and if not they ignored it.  Hence we get Photius' reading the history of Justus of Tiberias which covered the same time period as Josephus' works but because Photius noted that Justus did not mention the fucking godboy the work was allowed to vanish.

I suppose we should be grateful to those early xtian forgers who tried - miserably - to doctor up Josephus so that 'jesus' was there.  Without that we probably would not have Josephus' work, either.

[Fake Messiah]

It was the proto-Orthodox Pauline Christianity that eventually won as the official religion of the Roman Empire under Constantine, and Marcion's work Antithesis which started the development of the Christian canon that developed into the Bible.

Well how it seems to me is that Paul and people around him invented Jesus à la L. Ron Hubbard. And why do I think that? Because Paul said it himself repeatedly. He constantly claimed that he has received his knowledge directly from Jesus. Meaning no apostles and no actual Jesus, no oral tradition, that it all came down from heaven direct to his ear, either via another vision of his Christ or the Lord God himself; like

Galatians 1:11-12   I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel I preached is not of human origin. I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.

Galatians 1:15-16  But when God, who set me apart from my mother’s womb and called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, my immediate response was not to consult any human being.

Even more Hubbardian is in 1 Corinthians 9:14 Paul says "the Lord" commands that preachers like him should be supported financially - let's face it it's business for him.

Or 1 Peter where writer identifies himself as an "apostle" and not a "disciple" of Jesus Christ, meaning those who made careful search and inquiry into the Hebrew scriptures in order to get the answers from the "Spirit of Christ within them". So not witnesses or somebody who knew somebody who knew somebody who knew Jesus:

1 Peter, 1:10-12 Concerning this salvation, the prophets who prophesied of the grace that was to be yours made careful search and inquiry, inquiring about the person or time that the Spirit of Christ within them indicated, when it testified in advance to the sufferings destined for Christ and the subsequent glory. It was revealed to them that they were serving not themselves but you, in regard to the things that have now been announced to you through those who brought you good news by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven - things into which angels long to look!

Considering that Paul's writings date before the gospels, writer of Mark reverse-engineered a cosmic savior deity from Paul into a flesh-and-blood man on earth doing a sloppy job. Because he made numerous geographical mistakes among other mistakes of Roman law, Hebrew law etc.
Then the other writers of Gospels simply plagiarize Mark with some re-writes so that Mark's story becomes increasingly improved in Matthew and Luke; and by the time John's story is written, Jesus has become a cosmic deity from the very creation of the universe who strides around Judea fearlessly declaring to all that he is God almighty made flesh.

[Fake Messiah]

and if they were really up on snagging a demon, they might want to do a pelvic exam on me . . .

Really, would you enjoy sitting on the sedia stercoraria?