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Words versus Deeds
#1
Words versus Deeds
My cousin and I are discussing the issue of whether Christianity values works or simply faith. I've been able to come up with good replies to most of his points, though many are complicated by the fact that we have different denominational upbringings. However, he made the following point, and I'd like some feedback on it. Even if it's just to say it's a good point. Since the original issue was about who goes to hell and why, it's not even entirely relevant, but I do need to answer him on it. Some help please?

"Christianity does not embrace words over deeds. To say so is blatantly ridiculous. To say so is frankly slander (or... maybe libel. I get them mixed up). When Jim Baker's horrible behavior was exposed did you hear any Christians saying, "Oh, it's okay. He said a lot of nice things before he did all that. I'll still believe the things he says." When a priest is found to be a pedophile, does anyone try to defend him by saying, "It's alright that he raped those kids, he said he's a Christian so he must be."

If what you meant was that all it takes to get into heaven is saying you're sorry and really meaning it, then well, you are right. That is all it takes to get those negative points off your record. Yes, in other words, it is free. A mass murderer can get it for the exact same price as a soup kitchen worker. What would be the point of a salvation if it was only for nice people?"

To see the rest of the discussion, see here. Thanks for any help!
"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you. When you understand why you dismiss all other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." -Stephen Henry Roberts

http://www.nonestdeus.blogspot.com
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#2
RE: Words versus Deeds
It is quite sacrilegious of modern day Christians to ignore the part of redemption in repentance. Just saying sorry doesn't help - one must earn redemption. That involves changing oneself and making up for the wrongs, knowing that even though it is impossible to ever change the past, one can help form the future.

Modern day Christians seem to favor "God will judge" over their own ideals of spiritual enlightenment.

How typical.
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#3
RE: Words versus Deeds
Quote:"It's alright that he raped those kids, he said he's a Christian so he must be."


Um, I guess you haven't heard:

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/queen...3FmOtbpa4O
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#4
RE: Words versus Deeds
Yeah, the Catholics tendency to cover up their scandals was the first thing that came to mind.

I did go back though, and concede to him that my original point was about genuine belief, not just empty words, so it was a poor phrase to use on my part.
"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you. When you understand why you dismiss all other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." -Stephen Henry Roberts

http://www.nonestdeus.blogspot.com
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#5
RE: Words versus Deeds
(October 10, 2010 at 6:54 pm)Synackaon Wrote: It is quite sacrilegious of modern day Christians to ignore the part of redemption in repentance. Just saying sorry doesn't help - one must earn redemption. That involves changing oneself and making up for the wrongs, knowing that even though it is impossible to ever change the past, one can help form the future.

Modern day Christians seem to favor "God will judge" over their own ideals of spiritual enlightenment.

How typical.

Since we can only use the Bible to ascertain how one receives salvation please show me with scriptures how one is to earn salvation. Redemption = Salvation
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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#6
RE: Words versus Deeds
It does no good apologizing if you haven't truly learnt your lesson.
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#7
RE: Words versus Deeds
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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#8
RE: Words versus Deeds
Rosie - i think the main problem with Christianity as you are discussing it is that Jesus will forgive believers as long as they accept him. Look at people on death row becoming born again Christians. If they were not facing death I wonder how many of them would convert? They are making Pascal's wager and i'm sure many of them are even sincere in their beliefs. Frankly speaking I find this amazingly wrong.

@Godschild

Hell is a tricky concept. Especially as the original meaning of the word meant to be buried (Sheol - IIRC). Hell has also been described as separation from God (cool... wouldn't want to be around that tyrannical megalomaniac dictator), a firey pit, a frozen wasteland...

Its been presented in so many ways that even the Devils probably don't know what they should be doing and who to and what for! Big Grin
A finite number of monkeys with a finite number of typewriters and a finite amount of time could eventually reproduce 4chan.
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