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What is required for a human organism to be considered a rights bearer?
#1
What is required for a human organism to be considered a rights bearer?
This is 1 of 2 threads that I have created to help offload another thread that I have created.
Many of the people that I have spoken with accept the human rights of the fetus, but feel that the bodliy autonomy argument trumps this and therefore is a moral justification for abortion. I have started to address that on another thread.

However, there is a significant percentage of people who feel that a fetus or human organism in the embryonic stage is not a right bearer. This is a seperate but very interesting question that I would like to discuss seperately from the above the question because they are truely unrelated.

First is use the term human organism because that seems the most accurate:

An embryo is an early stage of development of a multicellular diploid eukaryotic organism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embryo

Embryo is a STAGE of the human organism, not a SEPARATE entity.

Therefor if an embryo or a fetus does not in your opinioin bear human rights then what is necessary to bear these rights and why?
If it does then this thread is not for you.

Thanks
........

BOOM
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#2
RE: What is required for a human organism to be considered a rights bearer?
Gave you kudos and a rep for asking the question, not for your opinion.
Guys, he's just asking a question, don't shoot the messenger!

I won't answer because I don't have any opinion of when does a biological thing become a human being?
No God, No fear.
Know God, Know fear.
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#3
RE: What is required for a human organism to be considered a rights bearer?
(July 4, 2017 at 9:21 pm)ignoramus Wrote: Gave you kudos and a rep for asking the question, not for your opinion.
Guys, he's just asking a question, don't shoot the messenger!

I won't answer because I don't have any opinion of when does a biological thing become a human being?

Differring opinions is fine as long as they are logical and sound. We can disagree but hopefull logically discuss them to hopefully both learn from differring opinions. But this can best be done if we discuss it logically. I do disagree with command theory arguments. It's this way because I say so.

I do hope to have honest dialogues, heres hoping for the best. thanks for the bump

I hope our interactions have atleast confirmed that I am intellectually honest and not a troll
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#4
RE: What is required for a human organism to be considered a rights bearer?
(July 4, 2017 at 9:12 pm)DogmaticDownSouth Wrote: Therefor if an embryo or a fetus does not in your opinioin bear human rights then what is necessary to bear these rights and why?
If it does then this thread is not for you.

If there's any time before birth, I would have to say at the point that it can survive, without heroic measures, outside the womb.

Bodily autonomy trumps any rights before that point. Unless you want to argue that compulsory blood/tissue donations are also a good thing.
Thief and assassin for hire. Member in good standing of the Rogues Guild.
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#5
RE: What is required for a human organism to be considered a rights bearer?
(July 4, 2017 at 9:37 pm)The Gentleman Bastard Wrote:
(July 4, 2017 at 9:12 pm)DogmaticDownSouth Wrote: Therefor if an embryo or a fetus does not in your opinioin bear human rights then what is necessary to bear these rights and why?
If it does then this thread is not for you.

If there's any time before birth, I would have to say at the point that it can survive, without heroic measures, outside the womb.

Bodily autonomy trumps any rights before that point. Unless you want to argue that compulsory blood/tissue donations are also a good thing.

I would direct you to my other post : A secular arguement for the alteration of existing abortion law
Please give me feed back on that thread about the argument. Would like very much to hear your opinion.,

The question that I feel this begs, however if then if at anytime an organism cannot surive without assistance does it no longer bear human rights? If you are on a ventilator or having srugery and on a cardiopulmonary bypass machine you are no longer able to survive independently. Do you no longer bear human rights if you cannot survive independently?

Hope tone is not attacking, asking questions to further logical argument and get both of us to think about the implications of our thoughts and rationals. thanks for the honest reply
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#6
RE: What is required for a human organism to be considered a rights bearer?
(July 4, 2017 at 9:48 pm)DogmaticDownSouth Wrote:
(July 4, 2017 at 9:37 pm)The Gentleman Bastard Wrote: If there's any time before birth, I would have to say at the point that it can survive, without heroic measures, outside the womb.

Bodily autonomy trumps any rights before that point. Unless you want to argue that compulsory blood/tissue donations are also a good thing.

I would direct you to my other post : A secular arguement for the alteration of existing abortion law
Please give me feed back on that thread about the argument. Would like very much to hear your opinion.,

The question that I feel this begs, however if then if at anytime an organism cannot surive without assistance does it no longer bear human rights? If you are on a ventilator or having srugery and on a cardiopulmonary bypass machine you are no longer able to survive independently. Do you no longer bear human rights if you cannot survive independently?

Hope tone is not attacking, asking questions to further logical argument and get both of us to think about the implications of our thoughts and rationals. thanks for the honest reply

No offense, but I'm really not interested enough in the topic to argue it in three different threads concurrently. I read your argument in that thread and I feel that you, like so many who want to restrict abortion who came before you, are very short sighted. If a woman truly doesn't want child, and there are as many reasons to not want one as there are to want one, no number of laws limiting abortion will ever make her want that child. They will likely make her a mother of an unwanted child though. As if that's any way to go through life.

Do you have a ready solution to caring for the kids once they're born if the mother can't or just plain won't care for them? Or, do you, like the Repugnicunts, not give a shit once they're born?
Thief and assassin for hire. Member in good standing of the Rogues Guild.
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#7
RE: What is required for a human organism to be considered a rights bearer?
(July 4, 2017 at 9:12 pm)DogmaticDownSouth Wrote: Embryo is a STAGE of the human organism, not a SEPARATE entity.

Therefor if an embryo or a fetus does not in your opinioin bear human rights then what is necessary to bear these rights and why?

Because the rights of an actual living human trump the rights of a potential human.

And you're absolutely correct: a fetus is not a separate entity. Indeed, it is embedded in a woman, and draws nutrients from her own metabolism, and can perhaps kill her if the pregnancy does not go right. And it cannot live outside her. Why would you give priority to such a being, blind in its outlook, incapable of holding much less expressing an opinion on even its own life, over the life of the adult woman carrying it -- unless you just want to make sure the wimmenfolk are kept in line?

I'll take you seriously about "human rights" when you start talking about the human rights of an adult woman and her right to own her own body.

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#8
RE: What is required for a human organism to be considered a rights bearer?
For starters that humanish organism must not depend for its survival on the tissues of another human to which it is not entitled.
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#9
RE: What is required for a human organism to be considered a rights bearer?
As for whether or not you're a troll, I think you're a polite one. But who looks for help with these sorts of ethical issues online in a forum they've never posted in before, where they know no one? Why would you value any opinion here at all, given that you know no one and no one knows you?

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#10
RE: What is required for a human organism to be considered a rights bearer?
How many abortion threads does one person need? Sheesh.
I don't believe you. Get over it.
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