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RE: Why am I me?
November 13, 2011 at 7:58 pm
(November 12, 2011 at 8:16 pm)Norfolk And Chance Wrote: I have no answers but I ponder the same thing and grasp exactly what you mean.
Why aren't you me. Why aren't I you? Why am I me now, not somebody else in 1700. It is brain bursting.
Those that answer "your brain, electical circuitry creates consciousness" are failing to grasp the concept of the question. We can seek to explain what consciousness is and how it works through science, but why me...?
You could just as easily be a fly that gets squashed after a day of existence. Or a dog or cat, or other human.
I think that most understand the question. It is the consciousness/awareness that we identify with as 'me' created by the physiology of the body.
Why am I not someone in 1700? Random chance. To believe otherwise is to believe in 'choice' and then, 'who' made that 'choice'?
The 'real' question is, "What is 'me'?". For the god-folk, a simple answer, but for the atheists, not so simple.
If our awareness is nothing more than the complex physiology and biochemical responses of the body/brain, then that is reasonably simple, but if our awareness is something beyond the physiology of the body, how does an atheist validate such without invoking a god/soul?
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders
Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
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RE: Why am I me?
November 13, 2011 at 8:11 pm
Nah, still missing the point.
You are a living lump of meat, aware of itself. I am another lump of meat, aware of itself. There are 7 billion lumps of meat all aware of themselves right now.
The question is not "what is consciousness?" The question is not "why are we conscious, or how?" That is a given, it is what it is, and doesn't need a soul to explain it. Aaargh, I cannot get the point across properly even still now!
The question is "why am I the consciousness in this particular lump of meat here and now?" And why are you the consciousness in that lump of meat over there?
D'oh it still doesn't come out right! (nobody say "why not" please!) For those that "get" the notion, I'm aware that there can actually be no real answer, it's just a thing that I ponder.
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RE: Why am I me?
November 13, 2011 at 8:21 pm
One needs to establish the 'what' before the 'why'. 'Why' are we 'what'?
'Why' have you not been aware since the beginning of the universe?
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders
Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
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RE: Why am I me?
November 13, 2011 at 8:25 pm
Because I hadn't been born?
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RE: Why am I me?
November 13, 2011 at 8:45 pm
By that then, you have significantly attached this consciousness of 'me' to a "bag of mostly water" and by chance this particular one is what you are aware of. Anything but chance, requires choice. This is why I say that 'what' must come before the 'why'.
What is awareness? Why are we aware at all? Is there purpose in awareness? If so, then what initiated the purpose? As I have said before, the theists just cop out with 'goddidit', but as free thinkers, we are looking for something more valid, more logical, more scientific, more concrete.
In the end, though, It will still come down to simply, "You are you, because you are not me (or anyone else anywhere, anytime).". You could have been me and me, you or just not. Random chance.
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders
Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
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RE: Why am I me?
November 13, 2011 at 10:00 pm
(November 13, 2011 at 8:25 pm)Norfolk And Chance Wrote: Because I hadn't been born?
You've answered your own question. The reason you weren't aware then is because you're aware now. The reason you're aware now is because you are you. Your world is your world.
Asking why you are you is equivalent to asking why a bear is not a badger: because a bear is a bear.
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RE: Why am I me?
November 13, 2011 at 10:29 pm
LOL, I know I wasn't aware before I was born and I am now - I just sometimes wonder why I ever became aware at all. There's all these other aware things that aren't me.
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RE: Why am I me?
November 14, 2011 at 9:18 am
(This post was last modified: November 14, 2011 at 9:31 am by The Grand Nudger.)
Because it's difficult to function as a human being without being "aware"...? Could you ask the question if you weren't? The whole "aware" bit is a double edged sword isn't it, seems to create as many problems as it solves...but only for those who are capable of considering it. Don't see many badgers crippled by philosophical paralysis. Certainly not the badger below.
(the slightly less smug version: suggesting that a problem of human thought is indicative of a problem in reality is anthropic bias played large, this is my major bone with philosophy purely for the sake of itself. You'll see no end to theists moaning about the "problem of induction", but for some strange reason the fact that this is a logical issue hasn't stopped my PC from working based on principles derived from it's use, explain to me why this question is any different? What about this question isn't handled by observation of the material world, which is replete with explanations as to why you are you, why in the first person, why limited to this time, etc etc etc.)
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Why am I me?
November 14, 2011 at 9:35 am
(This post was last modified: November 14, 2011 at 9:35 am by Epimethean.)
Of course, when that PC gets some virus aglet and begins doing things that are inconsistent to your expectations, a bit of philosophy comes in handy in staying your hand before you beat the shit out of the machine. Awareness remains an interesting term, dimensionally speaking, at any rate.
Trying to update my sig ...
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RE: Why am I me?
November 14, 2011 at 9:45 am
I go straight to the beatings, you can't break something if it's already broke.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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