Supposed Int design proof

[Brian37]

You guys are missing the point here.

This is a peer reviewed scientifically valid position that states the earth at the center of the Universe.
This is not the usual pseudo science, drivel that typically come from the creation wacko's.  
As a matter of fact the people who made this discovery went as far as to name the supposed cosmic axis "The Axis of Evil" because it made no sense given what is typically believed about the nature of the universe.

I am sure that eventually this is going to be disproved, but yet it still stands today with only speculation as to the weird results.

To me that is what is interesting.


And to be clear they are referring to the universe as a whole not the apparent universe which is a 13.5 (aprox) billion light year sphere around the earth (this is how far we can currently see due to the constraints of light years)

I didn't miss the point at all, you seem to be missing my point.

Yes real modern science is saying center is a point of view thing.

But when apologists argue science they are not being objective, they are trying to retrofit science to their religion after the fact. And again, I cannot repeat this enough, Christianity IS NOT the only religion with followers who try this. Muslims and Jews and Hindus and Buddhists try to also use science to point to their clubs.

Google any religious label and put the word science after that and you will find tons of links to apologist articles and pages that argue science points to their club. EVERY religion does this bar none.

But with respect to this specific version trying to point to the bible, it still does not work because the church authorities widely and the bible itself, paints the picture that the sun went around the earth and that was the official position. That alone negates any notion that they knew modern science. 

The bible writers thought the earth was flat and sat on pillars and we all lived under a dome. It was an easy mistake to make when you don't have modern tools. Same mental mistake a cat or dog makes when it sees it's reflection in the mirror and thinks the reflection is a real and separate animal.

There is no holy book or holy writing of antiquity that displays our modern scientific knowledge now.

[Astonished]

You guys are missing the point here.

This is a peer reviewed scientifically valid position that states the earth at the center of the Universe.
This is not the usual pseudo science, drivel that typically come from the creation wacko's.  
As a matter of fact the people who made this discovery went as far as to name the supposed cosmic axis "The Axis of Evil" because it made no sense given what is typically believed about the nature of the universe.

I am sure that eventually this is going to be disproved, but yet it still stands today with only speculation as to the weird results.

To me that is what is interesting.


And to be clear they are referring to the universe as a whole not the apparent universe which is a 13.5 (aprox) billion light year sphere around the earth (this is how far we can currently see due to the constraints of light years)

I didn't miss the point at all, you seem to be missing my point.

Yes real modern science is saying center is a point of view thing.

But when apologists argue science they are not being objective, they are trying to retrofit science to their religion after the fact. And again, I cannot repeat this enough, Christianity IS NOT the only religion with followers who try this. Muslims and Jews and Hindus and Buddhists try to also use science to point to their clubs.

Google any religious label and put the word science after that and you will find tons of links to apologist articles and pages that argue science points to their club. EVERY religion does this bar none.

But with respect to this specific version trying to point to the bible, it still does not work because the church authorities widely and the bible itself, paints the picture that the sun went around the earth and that was the official position. That alone negates any notion that they knew modern science. 

The bible writers thought the earth was flat and sat on pillars and we all lived under a dome. It was an easy mistake to make when you don't have modern tools. Same mental mistake a cat or dog makes when it sees it's reflection in the mirror and thinks the reflection is a real and separate animal.

There is no holy book or holy writing of antiquity that displays our modern scientific knowledge now.

And we ain't even scratched the surface on their ignorance of genetics.

[Alex K]

@Brian,

In this case it's simple - the peer reviewed research simply doesn't actually say what the creationists claim

[Minimalist]

Xristards simply feel that THEY have to be the center of everything.

[Astreja]

In an expanding universe, wouldn't any random point appear to be the center because everything else is moving away from it?

Yes. But given that, you can look at the distribution of stuff around us and the radiation reaching us to conclude whether we are in any special place. How you would conclude from the CMB to be at the center of anything though... Maybe Krauss responds, he is usually not keen on feeding Creationists with talking points. But he likes to make a bit theatrical statements to get your attention.

Well, every map I've seen of the CMB looks like a fairly random spatter painting.  If there's unusually high or low density somewhere, I'm not seeing it.

[Alex K]

Yes. But given that, you can look at the distribution of stuff around us and the radiation reaching us to conclude whether we are in any special place. How you would conclude from the CMB to be at the center of anything though... Maybe Krauss responds, he is usually not keen on feeding Creationists with talking points. But he likes to make a bit theatrical statements to get your attention.

Well, every map I've seen of the CMB looks like a fairly random spatter painting.  If there's unusually high or low density somewhere, I'm not seeing it.

Yes, it's not easy to see with the naked eye. What they do is express all that spatter in a systematic fashion using so called multipoles as a basis (basically saying the pattern can be recreated using this much of the first, this much of the second, etc. and these numbers give you the CMB power spectrum:



Increasing multipoles describe smaller and smaller features. What do these multipoles actually look like?



Here you see line by line: monopole (just uniform) dipoles, quadrupoles and octopoles of different types. Note that the "l" in both pictures mean the same, e.g. the multipole patterns shown correspond to the first few dots in the spectrum.

When you express the cmb through those you find that the octopole and quadrupole are aligned which is not expected, and roughly aligned with the solar system which is even less expected bc. there is zero reason. The only reason would be foreground contamination (dust and radiation from the solar system or galaxy messing with the cmb measurement) or just chance. The correct evaluation of probabilities is a big factor here because we are seeking pattern somewhere after the fact. Note that the Creationists didn't say beforehand: "and the LORD aligneth the octopole and the dipole to shew ye HIS greatness!". It's anomaly picking after the data came out.

[Rhondazvous]

You guys are missing the point here.

This is a peer reviewed scientifically valid position that states the earth at the center of the Universe.
This is not the usual pseudo science, drivel that typically come from the creation wacko's.  
As a matter of fact the people who made this discovery went as far as to name the supposed cosmic axis "The Axis of Evil" because it made no sense given what is typically believed about the nature of the universe.

I am sure that eventually this is going to be disproved, but yet it still stands today with only speculation as to the weird results.

To me that is what is interesting.


And to be clear they are referring to the universe as a whole not the apparent universe which is a 13.5 (aprox) billion light year sphere around the earth (this is how far we can currently see due to the constraints of light years)

What are your sources of this "peer reviewed scientifically valid position?" Your words seem to come ver batum from Wikipedia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axis_of_evil_(cosmology)

This article provides insufficient context for those unfamiliar with the subject. Please help

Missing the point? I think not.

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Wait, isn't the "axis of evil" merely about alignment in a particular direction? I don't think it says anything about our position in the universe.

So a deliberate misinterpretation, then.

Standard procedure for Christian apologists.