The Quran, the truth as I see it.

[Minimalist]

I don't know about the literal truth of the Quran

I do.

Yusuf Ali: Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People: We said: "O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness."

Surah 18:86

Total fucking primitive bullshit.

[WinterHold]

Unless your mommy and daddy wrote the quran, it had nothing to do with whomever created your consciousness Atlas. 

Economic disaster and wars aren't caused by people failing to read your bedtime stories....take a look at the world around you....it seems to be that a significant number of people believing in that bedtime story correlates strongly with dirt poor, war torn shitholes.  At some point, a person might wonder whether or not all of their problems are really someone elses fault, or the fault of people not "doing islam right"...and start to suspect that doing islam right causes a culture to become the engine of it's own destruction.

A good approach at life will produce good result, and here is where you get the negative consequences of a wrong versions of Islam: they contain horrible assets that pretty much allow you -or allow others- ruin the day.

So you build a huge wonderful structure. And evil idiot comes with the worst doctrine ever, that justifies every wrong action they do, to ruin the day for you. An example is the Jihadi mentality springing from Sunni Wahhabi faiths, that caused misery and death to Millions of Muslim civilians.

Maybe following what the book actually says; will save the lives of so many? Personally; I believe in that.

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To my muslim friends I say this-
Mohammed is a corpse in a box, but Jesus is not.
Spot the difference?..

Muslims don't use boxes in burials.

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The Koran may be the last revelation of the war god of Abraham but I don't see why I should be impressed. What purpose would such a tyrant serve for me? When the followers of Allah live in peace with each other and bring some dignity to the world stage perhaps I will reconsider.

A "war God" won't say:

Sura 6, The Quran:
(152) And do not approach the property of the orphan except in the best manner until he attains the age of full strength. Give full measure and full weight with justice. We do not burden any soul beyond its scope. When you speak, then say with justice though it be a relative. Fulfill the Covenant of Allah. This He has enjoined you with that you may deliberate. 

More accurate: he is "the creator of everything"; from mercy to war. To each its conditions; to each its times where it is valid and fair.

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Just wow.. Your god is a dick if he is unable to help his creation to understand his "divine" message. So, we have wars and economical problems because we are unable to understand his clear message? 🤔😂

He does help us; but we are not puppets, we hold our own destiny in our hands:

Sura 17, The Quran:
(13) And every man: We have fastened his action round his neck, and We shall bring forth unto him on the Day of Judgment a book proffered him open.

Sura 7, The Quran:
(185) Have they not contemplated the dominions of the heavens and the earth, and whatever (1Allah has created, and that maybe their time has already drawn near? So what discourse will they believe after this?!

It's not God's fault that some humans prefer to ignore these things. Many people after all, chose to observe these signs and speculate about them. Some even predicted alien life out there; some others invented "Arguments from Design". God didn't just help people; he created a whole universe for us to learn from.

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MinimalistAlmost always you'll find that it is our fault that we can't understand the holy horseshitter in the sky.

That fantasy seems to help believers sleep at night.

But he says:

Sura 16, The Quran:
(93) And had Allah willed, He would have made you all one community, but he sendeth astray whomsoever He willeth, and guideth whomsoever He willeth; and surely ye shall be questioned regarding that which ye have been working.

But still; he's not playing games with us. Actually; there dangerous steps that the person must commit to deserve being sent astray; like this:

Sura 7, The Quran:
(146) I will turn away from My Verses those who are unjustly proud in the earth. If they see every verse they will not believe in it. If they see the way of Rushd (immaterial maturity) they do not take it for a way, and if they see the way of Gayy (way of Hell), they take it for a way. This is because they belied our Verses and were heedless of them.

False pride is an example of why God might send somebody astray. Eventually; it's the person's choice; just like Adam and Eve and Satan.

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You were taught this by regular people like your parents or imams, don't deny this, since god doesn't do teachings himself. As a child it is easy to get wrapped up in fantasy. Your imagination has been nurturing these imaginary thought patterns while growing up. You are unable of critical thinking at this point. I suggest start by keeping an open mind, trust your logic and doubt, do not fear the made up hell and eternity of suffering that you were tricked into believing just to nip your logic and doubt in the bud.

Imams? no no; I got no "Imams" or teachers. My Imam diead 1400 years ago.

I began approaching religion after having a self-hating complex that most Arab Muslims have; the type of complex where you get embarrassed because your religion is full of weird stuff. I was an average Sunni boy.

Then, I began investigating the Quran. And discovered that the written Islamic folklore is full of crap. Lots and lots of crap. Crap that is so many, that you find crap between the crap.

The Quran was different. It was something like I never seen.

So I prayed to God; got myself an Arabiic/Arabic dictionary, and began to read. I thank God for what he gave me.

But I grew up in Wahhabi schools, that's how I know how to read the Quran probably, and took many Sunni Islamic subjects in school.

I just think that if people found the messages I found; life will blossom to the best.

Lots of blood was spilled because of the Sunni/Shiite religions; add to them most other doctrines. Ever nationalism and communism caused world wars.

[The Grand Nudger]

A good approach at life will produce good result, and here is where you get the negative consequences of a wrong versions of Islam: they contain horrible assets that pretty much allow you -or allow others- ruin the day.

So you build a huge wonderful structure. And evil idiot comes with the worst doctrine ever, that justifies every wrong action they do, to ruin the day for you. An example is the Jihadi mentality springing from Sunni Wahhabi faiths, that caused misery and death to Millions of Muslim civilians.

Maybe following what the book actually says; will save the lives of so many? Personally; I believe in that.

You believe many strange things.  Unfortunately, your beliefs about magic book don't have the ability to compel your fellow believers.  They're doing it right...you've simply been mistaken as to what it is. You want magic book to be more than it ever was or could be...and I actually understand that perfectly well. If wishes were horses we'd ride together.

[Brian37]

The truth as I saw it.

The story doesn't begin for any of us until we're born and conscious. Something very unique can be questioned, and it's consciousness that influences every behavior we do.

We didn't become conscious overnight. Yet; the way our minds work can being us back and forth to the same point. Deep inside we know we are special, from the probabilities of existence itself, the odds were too many. Odds like temperature, evolution, light...etc.

Always the missing point exists to build another step up the ladder of our existence. The more we discover the more we rival biblical stories; just to replace them by a special odd system that in itself is a miracle.

I think and believe that the Quran is the last book revealed by the creator of consciousness. So much can be taken from the book, and failure in understanding its messages does rain down a series of disappointments, like economical disasters and wars.

Personally, the book helped me connect with my consciousness, and know I am with every verse.

We are glad you reject the extreme far right of your religion, but we are still not going to give you a pass anymore than we do our well intended theist friends on the left.

How about you, like Catholic Lady, and Jews and Hindus ect ect ect, how about considering that that was then and this is now. 

Nothing cognitive with super powers made us like products in a factory. If you rightfully say that cognition didn't happen overnight then why would you need a "all powerful" god to explain anything?

Cognition in evolution is a result of slight changes in the DNA sequences over long periods of time. No magic needed.

Allah is not needed, Jesus is not needed, Yahweh is not needed, anymore than you assign all this to the Hindu Creator god Bhrama. Just like you don't assign lightening to Thor.

I find our existence amazing, but not magical. Countless factors could have lead to a different outcome. But knowing that there are an estimated 2 trillion galaxies in our observable universe knowing our planet has only been here 4 billion years out of the universe's 13.8 billion years, no, I cannot swallow any human claim that any sort of cognition with super powers made us like toys.

Why should if frighten you at all if you found out this is it and you don't get an afterlife? You had no pre life 4 billion years ago. 

I still see and appreciate the awesome things in life. I don't need to plop in old mythology to appreciate my finite cognition.