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Mosul Liberated
#21
RE: Mosul Liberated
(August 12, 2017 at 9:26 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: I'm working very hard to think of one square meter of ground in the Middle East worth one pint of blood from a GI. Maybe someone can help me out?

I'd much rather let the Sunnis and Shi'ites kill each other rather than insert Americans into the firing line. I'm willing to pay higher prices at the gas pumps for it, too. Better Muslims fighting each other, and perhaps they'll eventually learn the lesson that fighting over godly conceptions -- or Earthly successions -- is futile ... inshallah.

And maybe, just maybe, if we didn't fuck around in the middle of their 6th century battles we wouldn't be facing threats from them here.

Why the fuck can't our politicians figure out what most sixteen-year-old boys have figured out. Pulling out is a better plan than none at all.
Thief and assassin for hire. Member in good standing of the Rogues Guild.
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#22
RE: Mosul Liberated
We abandoned the Syrians, deciding that no meter of ground was worth an ounce of GI blood.   That turned out just peachy for all parties, huh?  Wink

It's not what some batshit crusaders that aren't us did, whose society and mistakes we've long since denounced, that cause teenagers to pick up an ak. It's what we do now, today, every day in the present.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#23
RE: Mosul Liberated
Don't the Syrians get any blame for fucking things up themselves?
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#24
RE: Mosul Liberated
It's unlikely that the vast majority of casualties in that conflict actually -did- anything to fuck it up.  They were just soft cover.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#25
RE: Mosul Liberated
(August 13, 2017 at 12:59 am)Khemikal Wrote: We abandoned the Syrians, deciding that no meter of ground was worth an ounce of GI blood.   That turned out just peachy for all parties, huh?  Wink

We should never have promised what we were unwilling to deliver, yeah. I'm unsure how that detracts from the point I'm making.

(August 13, 2017 at 12:59 am)Khemikal Wrote: It's not what some batshit crusaders that aren't us did, whose society and mistakes we've long since denounced, that cause teenagers to pick up an ak.  It's what we do now, today, every day in the present.

I think we actually agree. Our intervention in Iran in 1953, for instance, had a direct bearing on my own little-bitty life. I'm pretty sure you know this basis for my own outlook, so I'm confused why you seem to think my opposition is ill-informed. I'm also unsure what you envision as a solution. Confusedhrug:

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#26
RE: Mosul Liberated
(August 13, 2017 at 1:10 am)Khemikal Wrote: It's unlikely that the vast majority of casualties in that conflict actually -did- anything to fuck it up.  They were just soft cover.

And that is a shame but a rebellion did break out and somehow they expected us to bail them out.  We have enough problems of our own.
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#27
RE: Mosul Liberated
They expected it because we told them we would help, then we half ass helped, then we bailed when shit got inconvenient.  Our "problems" weren't quite as pressing as their humanitarian crisis...and we're more than capable of walking while chewing bubble gum.  Ultimately, it's going to be yet another middle eastern albatross hung around our necks.  

@Thump 
I was speaking to TGBs contention that the 6th century has something to do with why there are islamists hating the west today.  I agree that the bit with protecting BP in Iran is a better example of why we have trouble in the region than the crusades.  The only thing I disagree with you on is which meters of soil are worth pints of blood.  All of them, any meter in which stands a person who could use our help.  That, however, is an ideological disagreement and one where the disparity between our points of view is understandable and probably intractable.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#28
RE: Mosul Liberated
I don't regard it as intractable. It definitely frustrates me that we aren't a force for good there, but given the enormous distrust of our intentions we ourselves have sown (for the most part), I'm skeptical that they'll take the horse without finding bad teeth -- even ones that aren't there.

Having been a refugee from Middle Eastern unrest myself, I'm sure sympathetic to their plight, and your view. I just don't think any sacrifice on our part will improve anything there.

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#29
RE: Mosul Liberated
Quote:and we're more than capable of walking while chewing bubble gum.

I really don't think we are.
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#30
RE: Mosul Liberated
Hey, I didn't say we wouldn't constantly trip and fall in the attempt.  Wink

@Thump
I agree, we've made our own bed there but, imo, part of doing the right thing going forward is absorbing the shit that's going to get tossed at us while plodding on with the job of legitimately helping to improve the region.  It means that peacekeepers will be shot at, for example, while handing out food.  That's nothing new, though.  I guess, for me, it's difficult to believe that there's no point or amount of sacrifice that would be capable of breaking through that distrust.  If and where we haven't reached that point we just have to work through it. If you keep slapping a guy in the face and he just keeps doing his best to help you...it becomes a matter of who's exhausted first. I like to think that, if we wanted it, it would be the assholes whose arms eventually got too tired to throw another punch. You don't really have to win some decisive military or pr victory, you don't even have to be more capable; you just have to outlast the other guy.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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