Texas Hold 'Em Poker

[Edwardo Piet]

Anyone up for playing any Hold 'Em? I know a lot of you are American and there's only like 3 stakes where playing for money is legal. Well, not to worry, I'd love to play with anyone for play chips (fake chips/fake money), of course.

And for anyone here who is more knowledgable about Poker...... if you do a Google of poker sites with the worst players/ most 'fish' Supposedly sites like Bet365 and 888Poker have them.... whereas sites like Pokerstars, for instance, is described as 'tough'.

Well..... if that's the case..... how come I find the players at Pokerstars to be much fishier and easier? Is it because I'm better against better players? Is it because I read poker books that often tell me what to do against good players? Or is it because Pokerstars is actually full of a lot more fish than people make out?

Or is it because when there are listings of the sites with most fish... the sharks flock there and then suddenly that's the site that's full of Sharks. And when Pokerstars is listed as tough, the sharks leave there and go to the fishy sites.

Or is it because I play fast fold Poker and Pokerstars has a 1 cent 2 cent stake for that but the lowest stake (with 100BB) at a site for 888 for fast fold poker is 2 cent 5 cent.... and is that increase of stake (just over double) really that much big of a difference in skill?

I don't get it. 888Poker's fast fold, called snap poker, is full of nits who value bet really strong hands but they also play back at you when you try to bluff them. That's supposed to be a fishier site... but Pokerstars... I'm running all over them.

And I don't even do too badly at 888Poker. I tend to make a very slight profit or break even... depending on if I'm drinking beer. Lol.

But Pokerstars....... supposedly the toughest poker site. I've never encountered so much fish.

They seem to play weak hands and make weak calls...... and at the same time they are really easy to bluff and re-bluff. And their timing tells are super obvious. I feel like I can practically read their hole cards from their actions sometimes.

Unless I've just got a lot better at poker in the last 24 hours?! I doubt it.

[John V]

Anyone up for playing any Hold 'Em? I know a lot of you are American and there's only like 3 stakes where playing for money is legal. Well, not to worry, I'd love to play with anyone for play chips (fake chips/fake money), of course.

And for anyone here who is more knowledgable about Poker...... if you do a Google of poker sites with the worst players/ most 'fish' Supposedly sites like Bet365 and 888Poker have them.... whereas sites like Pokerstars, for instance, is described as 'tough'.

Well..... if that's the case..... how come I find the players at Pokerstars to be much fishier and easier? Is it because I'm better against better players? Is it because I read poker books that often tell me what to do against good players? Or is it because Pokerstars is actually full of a lot more fish than people make out?

Or is it because when there are listings of the sites with most fish... the sharks flock there and then suddenly that's the site that's full of Sharks. And when Pokerstars is listed as tough, the sharks leave there and go to the fishy sites.

Or is it because I play fast fold Poker and Pokerstars has a 1 cent 2 cent stake for that but the lowest stake (with 100BB) at a site for 888 for fast fold poker is 2 cent 5 cent.... and is that increase of stake (just over double) really that much big of a difference in skill?

I don't get it.  888Poker's fast fold, called snap poker, is full of nits who value bet really strong hands but they also play back at you when you try to bluff them. That's supposed to be a fishier site... but Pokerstars... I'm running all over them.

And I don't even do too badly at 888Poker. I tend to make a very slight profit or break even... depending on if I'm drinking beer. Lol.

But Pokerstars....... supposedly the toughest poker site. I've never encountered so much fish.

They seem to play weak hands and make weak calls...... and at the same time they are really easy to bluff and re-bluff. And their timing tells are super obvious. I feel like I can practically read their hole cards from their actions sometimes.

Unless I've just got a lot better at poker in the last 24 hours?! I doubt it.

Er, when difficulty rankings are made, I don't think they care about penny games.

[Edwardo Piet]

You'd be surprised. A lot of money can be made even at the micros.

And the micros are where a lot of people start. And many many players play there. Who is 'they'?

And... I am trying to find the relevance in what you said. Why would Pokerstars be less tough at the micros than other sites but tougher than other sites on all the higher stakes? How does that work?

[bennyboy]

If you play online, you can definitely learn to read your crowd. For example, if you see a lot of Russian names and do the time zone math to discover it's late Saturday night in Russia. . . start counting your money, because they're gonna go all in with shit just to prove they have the balls to do it.

Another thing you can do is rotate to new tables, bluff a couple blinds and bail before someone calls you on it.

Or work out a random bet program that will prime your table to think you're a moron so they'll go all-in when you finally hit AA's.

[Edwardo Piet]

I agree that even in fast fold poker little things like that can still be read.

But in fast fold poker there is no choosing tables and people are definitely far harder to read than any other form (and a HUD is useless).

It's hard to make money with an exploititive strategy in fast fold poker. An unexploitable GTO (Game Theory Optimal) style strategy is the best approach. So default strategy, standard lines... and basically whatever strategy is optimal against unknowns. (Pure game theory optimal strategy is too perfect to ever be followed by a human. So you just have to get the gist of what a pure GTO strategy would look like... and try to get close to it).

---

Another thing you can do is rotate to new tables, bluff a couple blinds and bail before someone calls you on it.

Hard to get caught blind stealing in fast fold poker because it's almost impossible to keep track of everyone (especially on larger sites like Pokerstars because the player pool is even larger.... and maybe THAT'S why I am doing better on Stars?)... so blind stealing is super duper effective in fast fold poker.

But so is 3 betting the blind stealers with a semi-good hand (or even nothing if people are folding a ton to 3 bets!). And THAT actually makes blind stealing harder if you're going to fold a lot to people who play back at you (so it's tricky).

In my experience fast fold poker isn't tight aggressive... it's tight super aggressive. People seem to be folding plenty (for 6 max!) but they're also bluffing far more.

The old 80% rule (3 betting with any 2 cards if the person who is trying to steal the blinds folds more than 80% of the time to a 3 bet) seems to work surprisingly well on Pokerstar's Zoom (fast fold) poker. But certainly not all the time. Depends on the time of day.

So yeah, there is a little reading I can do. I can play for a few hours and decide if the very large player pool I am playing against is MOSTLY overtight nitty players or MOSTLY over aggressive laggy players (no point looking to see if it's mostly loose-passive players... as those players are so easy to destroy and make money from that they're not really worth thinking about.... and it's so easy to recognize them sometimes even in the space of a single hand that it's easy to not miss value bets against them).

But any particular player isn't easy to read in fast fold poker. Unless they're a player so weak that they do something that no good player would ever do in any situation. (Like do a massive all in overbet with any hand other than pocket rockets (a massive all in overbet with pocket rockets can actually work with idiots that call it with junk. Going all in with the nuts is a good strategy no matter how large the overbet is (and AA is the preflop nuts)..... if people are stupid enough to not even have a fold button).... so overbetting with the non-nuts to non-idiots is something a good player will never do. And underbetting so small that no one will ever fold if they have any kind of draw or hand whatsoever is something good players will never do. Buying in with a tiny stack is something a good player will never do. Things like that can give you clues.... but mostly in fast fold poker players are mostly unreadable because you only meet them like once and there are too many names to keep track of (and many of the avatars are identical).

Some players DO have unique avatars. I think that's a really bad idea on their part. Having a unique avatar means you stand out from the unknowns which makes you easier to exploit even in fast fold poker.

I mean, everyone has unique usernames too. But that is WAY harder to keep track of. Especially when there's names that are very similar, multiple rotating players and a player pool of 2000+ people at a time (and people leaving and joining).

[Gawdzilla Sama]

[derail]One of my cousin is about 4' 9" tall and has EE boobs. Her favorite t-shirt says "No, you can't play Texas hold 'em."[/derail]

[brewer]

Sorry, can't get past the name/title. Sounds like twisted cowboy gang rape.

[Edwardo Piet]

It's merely the name of the most popular game of poker in the world?

---

[derail]One of my cousin is about 4' 9" tall and has EE boobs. Her favorite t-shirt says "No, you can't play Texas hold 'em."[/derail]

What is EE boobs?

Is she 18+?

If so can I respond to her with "Yes I can and would you like some pizza?"

I don't know what I mean either.

[Whateverist]

I love playing poker but only play Omaha hilo now. The value of bluffing is greatly held in check, though not absent altogether. Really it is about recognizing good starting cards and then seeing clearly how the flop supports or spoils them. I do better here than at reading who is or isn't bluffing.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

It's merely the name of the most popular game of poker in the world?

---

[derail]One of my cousin is about 4' 9" tall and has EE boobs. Her favorite t-shirt says "No, you can't play Texas hold 'em."[/derail]

What is EE boobs?

Is she 18+?

If so can I respond to her with "Yes I can and would you like some pizza?"

I don't know what I mean either.

You measure cup size by measuring the rib cage and then the full bust circumference. The difference is inches converted to letters. DD is four inches, EE is five inches, etc. 

Yeah, she was eighteen about ten years ago.